1) You think the vice captain of a top flight... hardly pulled up the daisies did they? Actually, that's a very good standard of football. They qualified for the Europa League the same as we did. You sound arrogant. ....Spanish team who finished 5th/6th... make your mind up Childish petulance. It was 7th. ....and then followed that with a season in the Prem where he made a lot of appearances... picked by Laudrup, say no more What's that you say? Picked by the man who brought in Michu and Chico, the guy who brought through Ben Davies and got Routledge playing to his potential? Michael Laudrup knows a thing or two about football. He's the only manager we've ever had who managed to secure a major trophy. Once upon a time stuff like that earned people respect. ....more than holding his own So that's what he was doing, I thought he had a limp At least that's funny. ....is valued by the market at nothing? Delusional Delusion, its a fact TB, Market valued him as NOTHING. The market correctly concluded that we would pay him off rather than have him in the squad and picked up a freebie. There are lots of examples of this. Joe Cole leaving Liverpool for West Ham is one....the scousers paid him up first...2 years later and there are still Prem clubs willing to sign him up. ....The way his time ended here was due to the way we handled the situation. By your logic Bafetimbi Gomis is worth nothing.... Showing your ignorance now TB, Bafe's club wouldn't sell him because he was good enough to play, on the football field and not with himself. Why his club ran his contract down a la Pratley, they wouldn't sell him, we couldn't give Canas away, different story entirely TB I am not ignorant and I did not say the two situations were the same....I merely followed your logic. He moved for nothing therefore the market valued him at nothing, comprende?....if you don't take into account the other factors in play with Canas' departure (it's just about nobody paying a transfer fee isn't it?) then by extension, Gomis left for free therefore he is worth "NOTHING". 2)...petty, goes without saying.... Why say it then Exactly, why did you 3) I did didn't I Yes, you did 4)...I could trawl back through threads to find the links I put up but that would be a complete waste of my time wouldn't it as you'd just dismiss it as paper talk. If you think there wasn't several European clubs who would want to pick up a player like Canas with his CV on a free that's your lookout. Who were they then, you brought them up TB, its like saying, "I know a girl that fancies you but I'm not going to say who it is", kinda childish TB yes, childish.....he secure a pay off from Swansea City and then had a choice of clubs, he chose to go back to Spain. Them's the facts. IF CHARLIE MORGAN WAS A BETTER PLAYER THAN HIM (OR FULTON, OR SHEEHAN, OR KING) HE WOULD BE PLAYING IN THE LOWER DIVISIONS BY NOW. ...I'd say you were being extremely unrealistic myself......and he has joined a top flight... outside of the two Madrids' and Barcelona, there is no top flight in Spain Prem-centric arrogance. ...European club now hasn't he? Perhaps he's paying them... Probably the only way he'd get a game So arrogant. Did you ever have a career in football Stump? It's super competitve and Canas has made it through. There were many Jacks who thought he was doing a good job for us. 5) Rewrite of history this ???. ...Canas was in Monks' team... Nope, Monk inherited Canas, big dif TB. ...and Monk picked him! Monk must be a reallly s**t manager if he's picking someone who no other club in Europe wants, someone who is not as good as our ball boy. ...There was an incident that resulted in some fighting at training... What happened? who did it involve? how was Canas involved? what was Monks role in all of this. We'll never know if you don't tell us all of the facts TB irrelevant. ...and from then on Monk didn't include him in any match day squads,... He shouldn't be allowed to warm a park bench, that's why Monk dropped him well he was picking him previous to the incident in training. Big f**ing coincidence that he was excluded from match day squads afterwards don't you think. ...didn't take him on pre-season tour... Because he was looking for a new club, That is exactly why we should have taken him, got him fit and given him minutes....give the impression that we will reintegrate him into the squad if we don't get a transfer fee for him....his agent looks for the new club. ...and had him training with the kids.... because no one in the first team liked him maybe? . f**ing schoolyard stuff ...Not the actions of a manager looking to keep hold of somebody... Nope, that's the actions of a manager thinking of his squad and the job at hand, after-all, that's what his job TB, he's not Canas, or any players, baby sitter.. a) YOU said Monk didn't want him to go, it was Canas who asked to go b) The manager's job is to manage the personnel and "baby sit" the value of an asset of ours, yes. ...The Post reported early in the summer that Canas and Pozuelo had been told to find themselves new clubs pronto... I recall it reported that they'd asked to leave Why don't you do a poll on here and find out what everybody else recalls? Edit - no need, here it is; http://www.southwales-eveningpost.c...-Huw-Jenkins/story-21655702-detail/story.html "Jose Canas and Alejandro Pozuelo, meantime, have been told they are not in Monk's plans." - Gareth Vincent (Evening Post) Another source; http://www.eatsleepsport.com/swansea-city/jenkins-bemoans-player-wait-1780573.html#.VA7IhGN9lX8 Post again (8/7/14); http://www.southwales-eveningpost.c...-Michu-Pablo/story-21343409-detail/story.html "Pozuelo and Canas are thought to be training in Wales after it was made clear to them that they do not feature in Garry Monk’s plans." .....before any of the players you mentioned... you mentioned You mentioned Chico, Pablo etc. not me ...started saying goodbye... How do you know that TB, when did they ask to leave? you have the date?. Do you know what this is sapping my will to live. If that makes Monk a liar If what? You said that it wasn't Monk who wanted him gone. You said Canas asked to leave and asked me if I am calling Monk "a liar". I confess that I don't know what Monk said on this issue (WHY DON'T YOU PROVIDE A LINK) but if he did say that he wanted to keep Canas then yes, I will be, calling Monk a liar. Do try to keep up. (and I have no idea what he is supposed to have said on Canas) but you seem so positive that he told Canas that he wasn't in his plans, make your mind up TB, your confusing yourself now. I am basing my opinion on the evidence. The newspaper reports, Monk's actions towards Canas. Any neutral reading this would have to conclude that it is you who is confused as you keep contradicting yourself. then so be it. Black is not white I'm afraid. No its Black, but regardless what your saying is that all of our summer and pre-season plans should have been tweaked to incorporate the wishes and wel being of a player who'd made it clear he wants out. What planet you on TB, is it uranus No. What I am saying, very clearly, is that we should have tried to reintegrate Canas to the squad whilst simultaneously trying to sell him (if he was such a problem, which I doubt)....we should have made it very clear to Canas' agent that we would not be paying up his contract and he would not be leaving on a free. In those circumstances it would be more likely that somebody....say Espanyol for example....would have paid us a small transfer fee instead of us paying Canas to leave. You see Stump, it's about Swansea City's wishes and well being for me. 6) If his presence was not bad for team morale why would Monk have not taken Canas on tour....after all, if he couldn't find a club it would have been better to have him match fit wouldn't it as after all, in your world, Monk didn't want Canas to leave did he. Again, there you go saying we should have spent all of our summer and pre-season tour thinking about a player barely good enough to warm a bench at a bus stop. I think in truth TB, Monk had far more important things to consider than the feelings of an individual. Your actually saying that Monk should be considering Canas over the team. Your credibility is diminishing fast TB and your true colours shining through. It is Monk's job to manage his players properly. They are worth a great deal of money to us. In reality it would have been virtually no effort for Monk to take Canas along....if it's about expense he could have left one of the youngsters at home (it is unlikely they will ever be worth as much to us as a potential transfer fee for Canas)....A manager of men should be capable of putting personal differences aside and focus on the end result. What are my true colours then? Have you got the guts to say what you think? Why would he give minutes to Sheehan and Adam King instead of a 1st team... you propose that we interfere with the development and well being of our developing players to cater for Canas. Please tell me your a TROLL TB, because if you hold that view and your not, then that means your a bloobie and I don't know what's worse. He could have given minutes to all of them....for that matter he could have taken Canas left one behind and they still would have developed by training with the 1st team throughout the season. Are you telling me that what will make or break Sheehan's or King's career is whether they played some part in a loss to Milwaukee. Oh, and you know where you can stick your childish insults don't you. player trying to get a move (after all, better he got fit and perhaps scouted in order to push through a speedy transfer and free up the wages)? Canas first again bollocks 7) By making it obvious he was considered a problem If your to be believed TB all we said was that he wasn't in our plans. That's hardly making him a problem is it? Maybe other clubs just knew he was problem, hence the non existent influx of offers check out the links below....they were queuing up for him before we signed him and they were queuing up for him when he left ...that needed removing we put any potential buyers in the driving seat, yes. No, it's his agents job to sell him not ours. If what you say is true, he was simply given notice by us. You seem determined to blame us for his and his agents misgivings. Its his job to be fit enough and good enough to play for us, its his agents job to find him a new club, not ours. After all we've a club to run, yes? Just stupid. 8) So ****ing disrespectful. We're talking about a player that had held his own in the Spanish top flight, where's that then Ask for an Atlas for Christmas. the Europa League Picked by Laudrup Well, he would have been playing there anyway having earned his right to play at that level at Betis. and the Prem Don't make me laugh. Are you disputing that he played many games in the Prem? Amat's a centre-half, as you know and a better DM than your golden boy. That shows what you know. He certainly warranted minutes this summer over Sheehan, King and Fulton. So ****ing disrespectful ? who's being utterly ****ing disrespectful to Sheehan, King and Fulton, you'd be happy to f***k over any of our players in order to accommodate a dud, that's right isn't it TB? Did I say that they don't deserve to warm a park bench, that the ball boy is better than them, that they are worth nothing as footballers? No. What a Mr. f**ing confused you are....your rants do make me laugh though so carry on. 9) Yes, why? It was fairly obvious from late last season that the Spanish were considered a clique because they were. You a player are you? How would you know? There is evidence of a clique existing at the club though....ask for a copy of Monk's book, as well as an Atlas, for Christmas The negativity aimed their way has been unrelenting on here usually in response to you and your groupies. My groupies? ridiculous. Check the match thread of last season. The unrelenting negativity started when we went through a winless streak. Foreigners make the perfect scapegoats. Their new manager was a rookie who had gone behind Laudrup's back Again, you seem to have all the facts before you, spread them around and tell us all what happened, why people felt they needed to do what you say they did? One of the complaints was about tumulutu who was going around the training ground tapping up our players. Got any facts about that then TB? You got the inside track then Stump? Do tell and include why we should find your source credible. (the guy who had brought them here). Maybe they felt unwanted. Have to earn respect, seems like you golden clique weren't prepared to work for a living. No more guaranteed starts etc, imo they just wanted to take the starters cash and not compete for it, that's what I think TB. I would have thought Laudrup had EARNED some respect myself. The only guaranteed starter at Swansea City was Ki....who Laudrup dealt with and Monk dished out a new 4 year contract too. 10) Rather than sit in the reserves, maybe he did? Got a link to the quote yourself? Oh I see, you refuse to provide any source or links but expect me to do it for you. You know what TB, I can't be arsed either Let's see your links Stump. 11) It was obvious to you alone ....and the interested clubs who waited for us to pay him off because of all of the above. Canas isn't worth nothing .....there are players in the Championship with not nearly as good a CV changing hands for £1m+. We got nothing That says so much about Canas doesn't it Two different things altogether. Canas' CV says so much about Canas. This post says so much about you. 12) Where have I said we were bullied on this? Just said that we succumbed yet again to the demands of others, this time it was teams pushing us into releasing Canas so they could snap him up for nothing. Before that we were being arse f****d by Tottenham I didn't say others demanded we pay Canas up. I said they waited and we managed the situation badly. I believe we should have got more money from the Ben Davies/Siggy deal, yes. I'm allowed to think that aren't I? The logical thing to do for them was to leave it alone until he had settled on a pay off with us as it saved them a great deal of money ...a bit like if we were to sign a Ravel Morrison or Joey Barton who had clearly fallen out with his club and was saying no to being transferred out. We would just wait until the other club was forced to cut their losses then pick the player up on a free Assuming we had no other club to compete with for his signature See list of clubs interested under links. .....Actually, Gomis was in the same situation, but Lyon just let him run his contract down instead of paying him off, Because he was a valuable player for them and provided returns on the playing field. Canas was nothing to us and he would never be a benefit to us all the while he was sitting on his arse sucking away the money. It was cheaper for us to dump him when we did, simple as that really. . He didn't sit on his arse. WE sat him on his arse. Dumping him the way we did cost us money. Some links for Stump; Canas linked with Elche and Espanyol (He ended up joining Espanyol)..... http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/swansea-seek-offload-jose-canas-4038335 From the official Swans site just before he signed... http://www.swanseacity.net/news/article/january-transfer-rumours-576859.aspx It says we beat off Southampton, Club Brugges and Kaiserslautern to sign him....for approx. £200k. Those with good memories will remember that Canas himself said that W.B.A. made an 11th hour bid and offered him significantly more money than his £11k a week here. He turned them down because he liked us as a club and of course Michael Laudrup. It also states that Real Betis expected Canas to run his contract down and leave on a free, the fact he joined us with 18 months left for £200k indicates that Canas himself might have paid up his Betis contract. This report also links Almeira, although they state that Canas will most likely join Espanyol to replace David Lopez who joined Napoli for £4m....his replacement is worth NOTHING according to some http://www.insidespanishfootball.co...a-liga-return-with-espanyol-in-pole-position/ Here's a nice one... http://www.offthepost.info/blog/201...nas-attracting-interest-from-italy-and-spain/ "Jose Canas is attracting interest from a number of clubs in Europe. Serie A clubs Atalanta, Chievo and Sassuolo are all keen, along with La Liga outfits Celta Vigo, Elche, Getafe and Malaga."
Utter disrespectful delusional nonsense - or should we say the Laudrup way that Monk inherited is what has given us 3 straight PL wins this season with a changed team? If we start losing I imagine you will revert to that. Remember the impact of that great Rodgers player Michu for one (who our manager brought to us for peanuts). Perhaps you could name the actual Rodgers players that achieved that first magnificant 5-0 winning away game at QPR (at team we had no luck against). We were all saying how Laudrup had changed things and how Rodgers had no plan B. Laudrup however was at least very respectful of the excellent foundation he had indeed inherited from the previous managers. He was also very modest about his own massive part in our achievements - perhaps that is why you are getting confused. I agree the Iceman is an excellent Rodgers player - but never played under Laudrup.
Stump. I await your reply including links...but won't be continuing this debate as I have said all I want to say and it must be boring for everyone else. We both got hot under the collar but it was enjoyable. No hard feelings.
Absolutely none TB, I enjoy our banter, its good to know we can bat off against each other without getting all nasty. I appreciate and respect your views even though we don't agree some of the time, same train different carriage, simple as that realy Stuck in work today so can't hang around, but I'll dig up some links for you later
I think most intelligent Jacks understand and see this, but alas not all are born intelligent!..................
Think it is a bit hard to call supporters of our new manager "groupies". Although some of us have indeed started their adulation at such a fever pitch it will be hard to think they will have another level to go to when he actually starts winning cups, delivering top ten PL finish, progressing in Europe etc. Hopefully by then they will not have got round to disrespecting him too. "Just say" all you wish, saying winning the COC was nothing to do with Laudrup is most certainly disrespectful delusional nonsense so fairly unsurprising if I am not the first to dismiss such statements thus. âNewbie my arseâ rather rude and disrespectful, your arse is totally wrong. Ask the mods to check if it is a duplicate IP. Please do not make false accusations against me, I have seen more than enough of them against our previous manager and many of his players despite their immense achievement for us (embarrassment to our club enough without turning on our own supporters). This is the only ID I have ever had on this website, nor (as far as I am aware) do I know any of the other posters beyond what I read on forum (although I must have met some of them in my many travels with the Swans). You seem to entirely miss the point in my first para. Where I liken crediting Rogers with winning the COC to crediting Laudrup with the 1st 3 wins this season- both wrong. Perhaps the concept of balance is beyond your comprehension. Indeed I specifically point out that the current team is also changed, so your comment it totally invalid. I do agree that Amat has played well. Siggy however is currently the jewel in the crown and as I point out he ironically (in light of the post I replied to) actually is a BRod player. As far as "cliques" are concerned perhaps we need to speak to those few senior players who used player power to oust a highly successful manager who was coping brilliantly to keep us in Europe and the FA with non stop fixtures and loads of Key injuries whilst still keeping us on track to stay up. Why was he not rather getting support during a difficult time for the team? Michu had a âgoodâ first season? It is you that show your true colours by this statement. Good he was outstanding he was voted overwhelmingly player of the season. Not only us drooling over him. He was one of he most stylish players to wear a Swans shirt and fitted in from day one in the decisive part he played in the QPR drubbing. âhero to zero, dude to dud, winner to sinnerâ - or as Monk repeatedly reported was injured - or do you think he had surgery for the fun of it. What sad disrespect of a player who gave his all on the pitch and massively contributed to giving us fans some of our greatest memories and the club some of its greatest achievements. âcan you name the actual Laudrup players that achieved our first ever victory at Old Trafâ Well if you donât remember try this link. http://www.swanseacity.net/fixtures-results/match-report/index.aspx?matchid=3690793 I would say all of them but you decide. It was great how the mighty Routs flourished under Laudrup after being somewhat sidelined previously. Interesting that the dumped players Canas and Poz once again showed their class and played a very decisive role in that historic win under Laudrup. Perhaps you were talking about our second ever win at old Trafford for which I intially made clear (though obviously not to you) that that was Garryâs team. Good to see Garry follow in the maestroâs footsteps though. Perhaps you would like to name the Monk players in our much celebrated home win over Cardiff and name the most influential player in that match if we want to carry on. âhis role in our almost disastrous second termâ â What ongoing progress in Europe and the FA cup and keeping us on track to stay up (even on straight points per game) â despite non stop fixtures and loads of key injuries. In fact if you look at the more meaningful like for like PL results with the previous massively successful season you will see he had achieved an almost identical points total. An achievement that we did not come near after his sacking even with the late surge and an almost fully fit team and a massively reduced fixture load. Sadly our achievements in Europe and the FA were halted by his sacking as we went straight out of both competitions without progressing further. It is a shame he did not get the opportunity to see through what he earned for us. ârightfully cut shortâ If you call shaking hands with someone and agreeing they could stay, then sacking them by email and it already being in the press rightful â then you have an odd sense of what is right methinks. Think totally unprofessional are the words you were searching for. Shameful for any employee of our club to be treated in such a way, let alone given what he achieved for our club in our Golden year and in Europe and in terms of international recognition. What actually went on behind the scenes there? I cannot think. Are we to think that Huw went into a meeting to discuss Laudrupâs future unprepared to give the Boards already considered response to the various limited scenarios that could have occurred from their initial demands? If he had to go why did Huw initially agree he should stay? Huw in his own statement talks of a subsequent ârethinkâ but this was a pre arranged meeting into which much thought must have already gone by the Board. What or whom caused such a dramatic turnaround. "who's confused?" â the ID "monk's heros" to whose comments I was responding, who I assume is not you unless you are getting your IDâs mixed up. Also now possibly you, about who managed our first ever win at Old Trafford. just saying
Looks like terror is exhausted after that super-long, possibly record-breaking post. The Guinness Book of Records are checking if it is indeed a record length for a post on not606.
Now that's creative, Valley. I like it! Plastic are you ever going to stop sniping? Oh that's right you won't be able to read this as you put me on ignore.
Valley ... I have a suggestion. Can you open a sticky general "f** You" thread and then everybody that's wants to swipe, insult, denegrate, etc another poster can have at it in there to their hearts content - bare knuckle style, no holds barred. This way the core of every article can be discussed without pointless tangents and subversion. While you're at it start a sticky "Monk v Laudrup" thread to consolidate all that tit-for-tat, same rules apply. This is not to point a finger at anybody, but I'm thinking it's about time.
Exactly .... No holds barred! Ideally, make it Jacks only .... that way no QPR, RedBirds and others can come in and cause problems.
