yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
...and both.... UK and an independent Scotland will lose out... .so stupid......
Scottish Independence
- Thread starter Leo
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...and both.... UK and an independent Scotland will lose out... .so stupid......
I am against the European Union and would prefer to be outside it, but even I can see the advantages of remaining a member. You can never change something you are not a part of although taking the first step is the hardest.
If Scotland do not like their lot in the UK why not work to change it from within? Like Spurf who seems to want a new system for England the best way forward is not to leave and then try to change something from outside.
If Scotland do not like their lot in the UK why not work to change it from within? Like Spurf who seems to want a new system for England the best way forward is not to leave and then try to change something from outside.
Reading the comments.
1. English hate everyone - so why do they want Scotland in the United Kingdom?
2. Scottish are friendly and helpful - so why do they wish to leave?
3. Scottish are careful and are of trust - so why can Yes or No give no honest answers?
4. Scottish want do not want outside control of their nation - so why go directly from Westminster to Brussel?
1. English hate everyone - so why do they want Scotland in the United Kingdom?
2. Scottish are friendly and helpful - so why do they wish to leave?
3. Scottish are careful and are of trust - so why can Yes or No give no honest answers?
4. Scottish want do not want outside control of their nation - so why go directly from Westminster to Brussel?
The problem is the EU is changing without the UK's views being taken notice of because of the dire problems for the inner Euro members. I suspect they are extremely annoyed at our current and predicted growth and jealousy of our financial sector. They will fashion an EU which gives the Euro members an advantage if allowed. If we cannot prevent this, which I think is the case, then leave on good terms.
If Scotland does get independence can we get rid of the interminable Scottish accents in television adverts trying to hurry us along to buy stuff we don't want? They do seem to be the current trend with ad man.
Absolutely correct Ak. It's all about emotion and nationalism. When many a marriage breaks up the same sort of rhetoric is used. Many English people don't like the idea that some people within their country don't want to be part of it. The people who argue the rationalist monetary point of view can't understand that some people are prepared to forego financial security for other objectives. Everyone is looking for someone else to blame for what is happening. And then there are the various historical grievances getting dragged up again. At least it is not heading towards war, this time.
If you ever have a row with your wife I bet the first thought that comes into your mind is not the good time you had together last weekend.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
So true...
the grass is always greener... ( no political jokes please !) ..... and of course they are all following the .....
Most on here will not get this but for you Bolton's Boots in case you missed it. Last Performance Oran Mor Monday 15th September. 
[video=youtube;y1V_jCbTq-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y1V_jCbTq-c[/video]
[video=youtube;y1V_jCbTq-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y1V_jCbTq-c[/video]
Most on here will not get this but for you Bolton's Boots in case you missed it. Last Performance Oran Mor Monday 15th September.
[video=youtube;y1V_jCbTq-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y1V_jCbTq-c[/video]
How many spurfs will we have creeping back down south when it all goes wrong?
The problem is Zen that even if we get a no vote the central problem does not disappear. Namely that it is becoming increasingly impossible for a relatively left leaning Scottish electorate to influence via Westminster. No opposition to free market economics is now possible via the parties in Westminster. So 'independence`is, for many people up there, the only way of being able to get out of the Anglo-American, Neo Liberal, Laissez Faire model of society. If I were living in Scotland I would be voting for it - but I don't and therein lies the problem. The rest of the UK would continue to suffer from the gravitational black hole of the home counties, which absorbs most of the disposable wealth of the rest in propping up unsustainable and unrealistic house prices. Scotland is not in the position of being able to 'change from within' because of its small population in relation to the rest of the UK.
The comment of someone with no generosity of spirit, and no soul. People who want others to fair badly just about summs up the self centred me first attitude displayed by many on this particular board.
Creeping back I will not be doing.
Having lived through periods of socialist governments since the Wilson era I can vouch that the lefty dreams always turn into broken promises and financial ineptitude. There really is no workable option than free market capitalism.
I have certainly done more for society by creating businesses than I did as a raving lefty in a factory in my earlier life.
Are you saying that a one bedroom flat in Aberdeen for £250,000 is realistic? Seems to be the going rate after a quick scan of property prices.
It's exactly this time of situation that the Scots want to be able to influence.
My son graduated last year with a first class honors is working and can't afford to get on the property ladder here in Aberdeen... yet.... therein lies the issue, patience is needed and a willingness to work for what we want not expect it to be given. I bought a 1 bed flat for my daughter last year in Aberdeen city and it cost me 100k. Future son in law graduated last year with a first as well and gets his first 2 bed flat in March cost 280k. Property prices up here have finally dropped back a bit from London but are still excessive and unsustainable long term.
Self centred is certainly not how I read any of this board on either side. Most here don't even live in Scotland but are worried about how an emotional campaign might lead to a lack of opportunity for both of the residual societies England and Scotland. My beliefs are that independence will be a complete disaster but if it happens I really hope that in a years time I'm eating humble pie. Why is it that when opposing views are expressed they have to be described as selfish, blind, uninformed, tory or whatever, can different people not require different burdens of proof to reach conclusions? Can different people not have different priorities of economics versus emotion? Can different people not reach validly different conclusions based on a certain set of "evidence" put in front of them for that choice?
Self centred is certainly not how I read any of this board on either side. Most here don't even live in Scotland but are worried about how an emotional campaign might lead to a lack of opportunity for both of the residual societies England and Scotland. My beliefs are that independence will be a complete disaster but if it happens I really hope that in a years time I'm eating humble pie. Why is it that when opposing views are expressed they have to be described as selfish, blind, uninformed, tory or whatever, can different people not require different burdens of proof to reach conclusions? Can different people not have different priorities of economics versus emotion? Can different people not reach validly different conclusions based on a certain set of "evidence" put in front of them for that choice?
It has been noted by someone else on here that even the Tory party of the 60s were left of the Labour party of today. What has happened in England is that the whole centre of politics has moved massively to the right since the 80s - but without such a parallel development in Scotland. This has led to a huge polarisation in the UK. which is not going to disappear whatever the result of the referendum. When you look at the so called lefty governments of the past you may like to remind yourself that a child born in the 1950s had more statistical chance of improving their economic station in life than today. Social mobility ie. movement up the social ladder - was lowest for those born around 1970 ie. those who reached working age under Thatcher, and has remained low ever since. Your idea that free market capitalism is the only workable system is negated by the fact that Germany's rise to economic success was not based upon these principles - but rather by a much more centrally planned 'social market economy'.