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OT: Do you think Scotland Independence is good for United kingdom?.

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by LuisDiazgamechanger, Sep 9, 2014.

?

Good for Scottland to leave the Union?

Poll closed Sep 29, 2014.
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    21.3%
  2. No

    37 vote(s)
    78.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

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    I'll have to think about that proposal.

    I can understand what you are trying to achieve. It does smack a lot of 70/80s Labour thinking in terms of bringing politics back to the people - though that does not make it wrong. I'm just concerned that it can be manipulated by parties that would normally be considered as protest vote carriers rather than potential governments.
     
    #141
  2. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

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    Milk, it is a myth that FPTP prevents people voting for parties rather than people - it just doesn't. The fact that you prefer to vote for an individual maybe admirable but it has nothing to do with the essential elements of FPTP. As I said earlier there are electoral systems based on proportionalism that allow for individual candidate choice.
     
    #142
  3. Milk not bear jizz

    Milk not bear jizz Grasser-In-Chief

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    I have never once voted based on party! I completely ignore what party someone belongs to. If I'm not familiar with an individual policies I don't vote.

    I've written in my cats name on several occasions when I wasn't familiar with individuals running.

    You can keep calling it a myth but it isn't. I've never voted for party and lots of people don't.

    If you introduce proportional voting you completely eliminate the basic right to chose who governs you... a simple facet of democracy.

    Proportional voting also limits ideas because parties will select people who tow the party line.
     
    #143
  4. saintanton

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    During the height of the Thatcher era the House of Lords was the only effective opposition the country had, because the left was totally emasculated.
    Even the reactionary old fossils in the Lords baulked at the divisive excesses perpetrated by Maggie and her Merry Men, robbing the poor (and the state) and dishing it out to their cronies.

    If the Jocks swan off the rest of us will be consigned to an increasingly impregnable Tory power block, so we might need the Lords to ride their mighty Mobility Steeds to the rescue once more.
     
    #144
  5. saintanton

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    I vote on party because I would never contribute to the election of a party to whom I held opposing views.
    If my local right wing candidate declared a personal manifesto that chimed exactly with my own beliefs (not that that's likely, of course) I still wouldn't vote for them because when an actual parliamentary vote takes place he or she will be forced to toe the party line.
     
    #145
  6. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    With the party system at the top and the whip applied it really means if you want say a tax decrease or a greater service you have to vote on party lines. Individuals views mean nothing in the whip system unless they are the top 4/5 cronies running the show

    A vote for labour was a vote for Blair after all
     
    #146
  7. Lucas Talking

    Lucas Talking Well-Known Member

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    This
    Very few backbenchers ever get the chance (or inclination) to push forward their own views. Unfortunately, most are there purely to further their own political careers than to represent their constituent or make good on their manifesto.
     
    #147
  8. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Proportional representation means a wider range of views get to be aired rather than just the choice of the two main parties and there opinions. It's the opposite to limiting ideas.
     
    #148
  9. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

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    Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.

    I did not say that YOU did not vote for a party. I was referring to the FPTP system. As I said, it is a myth that the FPTP SYSTEM prevents people from voting for parties. Still no use crying over spilt Milk <ok>
     
    #149
  10. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Tell that to the Italians ......no good having 'ideas' if they can never be put into action because they always have to be tempered., compromised and watered down to mean nothing practical.

    PR is a very General term covering many versions of systems all with their draw backs.

    No matter the system employed to select mps its the type of person attracted to run that means the end result stays the same. The birth of the "career" politician is the main reason there is a disconnect from the electorate.
     
    #150

  11. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    the english are scared, and rightly so.
     
    #151
  12. saintanton

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    Jocks are scary,tbh.
     
    #152
  13. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    It's the excess of make up and lack of underwear that frightens most I think :1980_boogie_down:
     
    #153
  14. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    I think personally they are all too pussy to actually vote yes
     
    #154
  15. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    If Scotland vote yes will the huns still fly the union jack at Ibrox?
     
    #155
  16. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Union flag*
     
    #156
  17. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    #butchersapron.

    <ok>
     
    #157
  18. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    More the apron of civilisation ;)
     
    #158
  19. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    <laugh>

    You do know civilisation only came to these shores centuries after it began in China, Japan and many other places.

    #blametheromans
     
    #159
  20. UnitedinRed

    UnitedinRed Well-Known Member

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    No and only inbred scots want to break away.

    It will end up with conflict as the scots have this fantasy that things are theirs. Oil, water etc... They couldnt be more wrong. Its ours (uk).
     
    #160

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