It might seem that way on a superficial analysis. But the major (only?) reason United seemed turn it into a scottish premierhsip or La liga is Alex Ferguson. The size of the club is not a guarantee of success as we all know from the pre Ferguson years. Even when United was the biggest club they still had to watch the expenditure. The period of dominance is down to SAF alone. That's a huge difference to having a situation where the club could make 200m or 400m LOSS without any consequences. When Roman acquired Chelsea, the club incurred losses in the first year. Did it slow down the next year? NO in fact spent even more. This is unnatural. It creates a spiral of even greater spend year in year out of thsoe who can afford it i.e Chelsea and City. United even when they are spending big have to watch the balance sheet. The GGs and other shareholders do not have unlimited funds like Roman or the sheiks and are not willing to have reduced dividends never mind huge losses like City's or Chelsea's (now corrected I admit).
The pre Ferguson years are irrelevant. The money that now exists in the game due to Sky, world wide TV rights etc means that in general, the biggest clubs will stay at the top. All FFP does is close the door to any second tier clubs having any realistic chance of competing for the title in future now by getting investment of a large enough scale. United will never go 2 decades without winning the title again because there simply wont be the wealth of variation in the competition there was previously. TV revenues and now FFP has merely allowed the big to get bigger. For every person that thinks its unfair for rich owners to make clubs better in a non 'natural' way, there will be someone else bored of the status quo being at the top every season. Luckily for us, FFP has come in after we have had enough sustained investment and success to mean we'll probably stay as a top club for the foreseeable. City still have work to do to maintain their position, anyone else has little chance. Fair or not. We'll never see a Nottingham Forrest again either. Just look what happened to Southampton after having a decent season, all their top players pouched by richer clubs who can offer silly transfer fees and wages.
I only quoted the pre ferguson years to indicate that the size of the club is no guarantee of success. And it will be the same now. I heard the chairman of Monaco complaning that a small club has no chance to rising to the top. Was United always big? Were they created big? same with other clubs like city, RS, chelsea, arsenal, Spurs, Everton. They were small and grew as they became more successful. How can Monaco expect to be the size of Marseille in 2 years? Should Anzhi for example expect to get to the size of Real in the next 3-4 years just because the owner have billions to spare? Clubs grow big steadily by their success and by the size of their support and yes success usually brings in even more success. Not by pumping massive amounts of money from the outside.
I wouldn't say no, I dont think any club is created big. United became big because the Busby babes were romanticized in the media, and also, though this might sound weird, the Munich Disaster helped raise their profile world wide too. I am sure Hillsborough had a similar effect on liverpool, as terrible as both incidents were. United were the first English team to win the European Cup, which i am sure went a long way to boosting their profile too. That combined with competing locally with only one other team (City), London clubs had a harder time to get their neck stuck out from the crowd because you couldn't throw a stone in London without hitting a different football club. I've always maintained that the sheer volume of London clubs has always held the city back in football terms. Evidenced by the fact that it took over 60 years for a London club to finally win a European Cup .
My point is though is that it will probably no longer be possible for the clubs below the elite to gradually become big clubs anymore because the disparity between the big and small, rich n poor is just getting bigger all the time. United were always a big club but had their best period of success at the best possible time to support their brand and fan base growth. Liverpool by contrast have suffered by their period of dominance coming before the 'global game'. Had it been Liverpool winning all those titles in the last 20 years then they'd probably be the worldwide force United are now. In response to Bo's point, Liverpool and United also benefited greatly from increased fan bases by being close (relatively) to the Irish. Those clubs have massive Irish (and to a lesser extent Scottish) support due to location.
Chelsea and City fans just dont understand the ethics behind working hard to get success. Why would they? I hear the same rhetoric from their snoozy lazy fan base. I have always said if you love football there is no way you can be a Chelsea fan. If you think doping and creating a false economy within football is all good then these are your go to clubs. Ironically They represent the modern world we live in perfectly. If you throw enough money at something sooner or later it will be a success. That really is the case with City and Chelsea. nothing more nothing less. Thats why they are now labelled as 'the money clubs' This is a label given not through an incredible business model but the complete opposite.
Having seen Chelsea go through some awful spells in the 80's why should I not enjoy the success? Would I prefer it was all based on young players coming through the ranks and self earned money. Yeah probably but it's not a deal breaker. Should I just not support my club anymore because we now have a rich owner who spends his cash? I know you lot spend most of your time booing your team and trying to get your manager sacked but us proper football fans support our club regardless. You're an absolute and ignorant clown.
And as for City fans, they were still turning out in their droves despite being in the third tier not so long ago. If there was any fan base that deserved some success having lived so long in the shadow of their neighbour, it's City.
Of course we will never know what might have happened. But I can tell you that United was a global force well before the so called modern era. I went to the Far East in the 70s and they were a global force then. When people hardly knew (never mind supported) the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona. When you asked people about Manchester they would tell you all about Bobby Charlton and Geroge Best. They wouldn't have a clue about anything else about the City. It is all part and parcel of the "romance". Even when United were relegated their support around the world grew. People started watching the 2nd division (then), and how United destroyed other teams there with really exciting wing play from Hill and Coppell. That United team (in the 2nd D) was one of the most exciting United teams I've watched. And I am sure would have been beaten most teams in the top division. Yes the likes of Real and Barcelona have benefitted from their European success. Other prem clubs could have benefitted too. I am not saying that United did not benefit from their dominance of the premiership but I don't believe their global reach would have been that much less if they had only half the success they had.
What makes you Londons Biggest club? It can't be your trophy haul so I guess its the old bank account syndrome (my chairman is richer than your chairman) Or is it your amazing stadium? or is it your European cup? or is it your amazingly large fanbase? or is it your recent success? what is it exactly that makes YOU Londons biggest club!!??
And here is a gooner frothing at the mouth because his club was beaten to the first London club to win the European Cup. Bless.
oh no please spare me the bitter pill comments. Well done to Chelsea on the Champions league win. well done on being the first London club to win it. What does that really mean to me as a gooner? **** all as I wouldnt swap your win for anything. but again well done! I hope that clears it up for you
Actually no, that was already done by Chelsea in 2003. Prior to the Abramovich takeover, there was loads of money in the game but no talk of the 'Big Four'. Most clubs didn't actually exercise all their financial power as they didn't need to. There was a balance between short term spending and bringing players through, and the top four changed regularly with Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Blackburn pushing for the top four, and the likes of Ipswich, Sunderland, Leicester, West Ham and Southampton having a good tilt at the UEFA / CWC. That all changed in 2003 - Chelsea's big spending has forced other clubs to respond by spending everything they can to try and keep up. So now it is a case of only the clubs with the biggest revenues pushing for the top four, and it being more or less the same clubs year on year. Smaller clubs are less likely to get a look in, the likes of Leicester getting into Europe by winning the League Cup is very rare now, as the top clubs have such big squads that they can win it with a second team. Without FFP, the financial gap between the big clubs and the rest would just widen due to ongoing spending - I think most of the clubs outside the top four / five would much rather the gap to the top close than them still have a tiny chance of finding a bored billionaire to ditch all their home grown players and replace them with expensive imports. FFP is not closing the door on small clubs, that has been done already by Chelsea and City. FFP is closing the door on the financial distortions which created the 'Big Four'. It's just a shame it has happened ten years too late to save the PL as a genuine competition from top to bottom, not a tiered structure where everyone knows who will be competing for trophies and titles from game one.
Myth. They were occasions where they had high numbers at games and others where they didnt. Leeds Sunderland Newcastle All have better support in the lower divisions. The city myth comes from a division one game at blackburn. They took huge numbers to be fair bit they were getting promoted so its to be expected. Dont use they myth again.
