Not the best piece, quite vague & offers little in support. The full paper may be better. Your first line above though does go against the one you used earlier. "many are lumping his alcoholism in with depression, even though they are seperate," They are not separate. There is evidence that proves comorbidity between alcohol dependence and depression. I can get you more detailed papers but you'd have to wait until I return to work.
I have copied in the OT; it would seem an open question followed by a reasonable point of view, so have you appointed yourself the boards censor? You quote tired statements but have totally failed to enter reasonable discussion with real or enlightening substance. Let's try this, do you accept you were wrong to dismiss my points and do you retract your insults? Here is another question: have you ever been in the company of Paul Gasgoine? I ask that last one because the OT was very specific it was you who decided to bring other illnesses into it z some needlessly IMO. Stop trying to bully (you fail miserably) and try discussing, or just shut the **** up and do some reading.
It was a reasonable point as was my response. "He's ill" Your points were wrong & ill informed, they usually are. Google, copy & paste doesn't make you informed. I've met PG, although that's irrelevant. My first response was relevant to the thread. That was quite clear. If you failed to understand then that's your shortcoming. Making comparisons with how people suffering from other illnesses is relevant. You won't agree because you don't have the intelligence to understand. You ignore reasonable discussion. This in the main is because your level of intelligence is not as high as you believe it to be. Who am I trying to bully? "just shut the **** up" Mmmmmmmmmm. I'd have an educated guess that I've read more on the subject of mental illness & other illnesses than you ever will. I'd go as far to say your google earlier was probably your first read on the subject. PG is a man in very troubled circumstances yet many feel so able to condemn and throw away his life (but for the tolerance of others) and the lack of tolerance to his situation shames you. I agree that he was wrong slapping his ex, I don't offer sympathy for it but do try understand that mitigating circumstances that may be beneficial to future prevention and accepting a person can be rehabilitated of certain crimes is essential to civilisation. You feel able to judge, good for you.
In your process of belittling and insulting folk you have totally lost sight of the fact that, I, from the beginning, have accepted the link. I just don't accept it is a 100% coincidence and, in the case of Gasgoine, the two only became intertwined after quite some time.
You're the one telling people to **** off. Again it's your unsubstantiated opinion. Unless you're one of his docs. Which I'm guessing you're not.
Try separating the character from the theory. I told no one to f**k off, I told you to shut up , unless, of course, you can validate your nonsense. I've linked professional opinion: do you intend to keep blathering your argumentative opinion without anything more than, 'I've met Paul Gasgoine'? Edit: Aye, there was an 'or **** off' in there; get over it.
Charlie1 has it spot on . Personally I have no idea what depression is like but I'm guessing it must be terrible with people committing suicide when depressed. I hope PG can somehow get better ...though I have no idea how .
I have had couple of friends who have tried to commit suicide and another who suffered anorexia for about 3 years. Also a work colleague who suffered post natal depression. All seem to be ok now. But you do feel kinda helpless at the time. Physical illnesses you can offer practical help. I suspect PG will never get better. Sad but probably true.
That's as poor a choice of words as I've read on here. She's a gold-digger how exactly. She knew him for quite a long time before they married, they had a child and he adopted hers from a previous, which probably explains the keeping of the name. You seem to attack her purely to support your twisted logic. Have you yet come to terms with the fact that some folk can be alcoholic, some depressive and some (60% according to your quoted sample) can have both? As Charlie said earlier, we have all probably come up against these issues in our personal circles and one thing I have learnt is that alcohol can change decent folk into demons, but sometimes it simply makes a waste of space a bigger waste of space. There is an urban legend that surrounds Paul Gasgoine, that infers that everyone thinks he is a lovely lad, a daft lad with a heart of gold; some might do, some say it so as not to rock the perception boat, but they really find him a self-centered fool who manipulates friends and relationships, often suffering the same himself. I would imagine someone will pay for his next detox and then he'll be out telling us all about it and how he gonna change the world, again. In the meantime his 'gold digging ex-wife' will continue to support herself and be a mother to her kids; how dare she, hey, Sir Cheshire Ben?
You've not addressed one point on the thread, you've been patronising, shown ignorance on the illnesses being discussed, passed off blinkered information as fact, insulted people, moaned about insults, bullied people, moaned about people bullying, tried to belittle people, moaned about belittling, changed your view. In short you're being a twat & showing yourself up by doing so. Basically you've shown yourself to be what you are a Mackam based PG hater. Lets address your ignorance, from the start. "To a degree, then it's confusing where the illness and the excuses can be separated, and separated they must be" What are the excuses? The only mitigating excuse for his behaviour is that he's ill. That's the sole cause of his illness. If he didn't suffer from Bipolar Condition, depression & Bulimia, OCD & have an addictive personality then he would not be an alcoholic. Of course in Fez's little life of made up facts he was an alcoholic before suffering from any of the other conditions. This is of course bollocks. Just because it hadn't been reported in your red tops doesn't mean you're not suffering. You know nothing about when his conditions began, were diagnosed or their severity. "Be sympathetic, it's a good way to be, but he needs dealing with properly, just like all of the other alcoholics" How should all alcoholics be dealt with? In fact should they all be dealt with the same way? Is there a set standard of dealing with all alcoholics? I'd of thought that alcoholism was best dealt with on an individual basis taking all other medical conditions into consideration. "Redknapp says he can be involved with his youth team - really???" lets also include a post from later in the thread "I would be more than a tad annoyed with Rednapp if I had a lad in his youth set-up." Why is this? Do you not think he's entitled to an opportunity to work, especially if it aids his condition? "So you are in the know. I don't think so, as you spin this out as some sad story." Who gives a **** what you think? Do you think you're board bullshit adjudicator? Do you not think it's a sad story? "He had as good or bad an upbringing as the lads or lasses around him, but he had a talent and his character, as with us all, used that." What the **** has this to do with anything? Bipolar, Depression & Bulimia are not caused by class. How many of the lads & lasses who grew up around him have similar problems? I'm guessing you don't have a ****ing clue, clueless so to speak. "Of course he was manipulated by some, but he had huge opportunity to push that away - time and time again he chose not to.He still does that now. It's his character, it's him, so he must accept responsibility for being him " When was this huge opportunity & when, time & time again, did he choose not to push them away? Everyone is responsible for their character but his problems are his illnesses, you can't seem to grasp this, maybe it's your blinkered Mackam led anti PG bias. Although you may believe he's responsible for his illnesses. "To compare him to someone who is struck down with cancer is missing the choices element that many adopt" He didn't choose to be ill. If you believe he made choices that led to his illness then why do you not think that some cancers are not caused by life choices. It's highly comparable. "Most of his close friends are at the end of their patience with him" ITK are we? I guess you're making this up. "I would never do him harm, but enough is enough; he is a clinical case the same as any other." If he's a clinical case like any other why is enough, enough? Do you hold out the same view with cancer sufferers who come out of remission? Diabetes sufferers who's illness progresses? What is it with mental illness that makes you want to be discriminatory? "Are you discussing a valid point or throwing out ****e to get an argument?" Take a look in the mirror. "Cancer patients rarely have the luxury of choice" Many have made lifestyle choices that make their cancers become apparent. You're 100% wrong. "Do you have any other gems of wisdom to hand?" Do you? "Get off your high-horse, telling everybody the bloody obvious." It's better to state the obvious than post bullshit & bollocks as you have. "This may shock you, but Gazza has had, is getting and will continue to get at least as good a care and compassion package as anyone else." But you have a problem with this right, afterall "enough is enough" "Yes depression is an illness, but his drift into alcoholism was a choice made by a cheeky chappie who enjoyed getting one over his bosses." This is an ignorant comment with no substance, yet consistent. "I've watched him connive to cheat in every way possible, ***s, booze, the lot." Are you stalking him or just going on what your Mackam mates say? What a stupid comment. "People with any form of illness retain their natural character; Reggie Kray did not suddenly become a nice man with illness. Nobody has said withdraw help or treatment, but it would be sensible to recognise that, unless he is prepared to help himself, that treatment, time and therapeutic facility, might be better focussed where there is some chance of it being better received." Have you heard of Schizophrenia? What is PG's "natural character" You appear to be the self elected expert, shouting others down for pertaining to be ITK yet spouting made up bollocks like it's going out of fashion. Your ignorance & self belief in what you're talking about borders on hilarious. Proper cockhead. "The significant thing on here is that so many are lumping his alcoholism in with depression, even though they are seperate, but often commonly associated illnesses." One is commonly a result of the other, they go hand in hand. That's fact. Just because you read in your red top about PG's alcoholism first doesn't actually mean that he was suffering with it first. It may well have been his alcoholism that led to his depression being diagnosed. There is no indication to how long he has been suffering. Do another google search & pretend you know otherwise. I think you actually believe he woke up one morning and though "'haway man, 'as gonner gan an get mesen blathered tuday, ten mesen intu a reet proper alco, jus tu ger wun up on the bosses like" "I really do wonder how many of you would stretch your words to actions if faced with the day-to-day reality of Paul Gascoigne." I'd guess many do. I'm sensing a little guilt in this post, did you run away from someone who was suffering? Pretend it was all their fault to make you feel better? "He thrives on excuses and soft options, he lives for drink and fame." In you opinion, which, let's be honest is worthless. Is Stephen Fry an alcoholic or is Jonathon Ross a depressive? I don't think he is, but many bipolar sufferers are. Jonathon Ross does indeed suffer from depression. Significance of your point? It appears to me that you have a problem with anyone who suffers from mental illness? Ex forces eh, see it as a sign of weakness? Line 'em up shoot them all, weaklings. "Was Paul depressed when he used his fists on his wife? He might want you to think he was, but no, he was simply being him, his father's son - but Paul had advice and opportunity in abundance. Paul became a depressive long after his high life of fame and all its glories. He was a very happy liar, cheat and bullying woman beater long before he became depressed about his self-inflicted decline." Are you his Doctor, parole officer or something. How the **** can you state definitively that he was not depressed when he slapped his ex? I say he was as their is no cure for depression or bipolar, just treatments to help. Guess you're wrong again now that's a fact. You really despise him don't you. Mackams eh? He was punished for abusing his wife. PG is a man in very troubled circumstances yet you feel so able to condemn and throw away his life (but for the tolerance of others) and the lack of tolerance to his situation shames you. I agree that he was wrong slapping his ex, I don't offer sympathy for it but do try understand that mitigating circumstances may be beneficial to future prevention and accepting a person can be rehabilitated of certain crimes is essential to civilisation. You feel able to judge, good for you. "Now comes the Tallyman, collecting his dues; it happens to us all, to one degree or another. Tea, treatment, even sympathy, but cut out the dripping sentiment, it's time for Paul Gascoigne to help Paul Gasgoine." Fez the Tallyman. What a cockeyed statement. Cancer sufferers, collecting their dues, Aids patients, collecting their dues, Autism sufferers, collecting their dues. Glen Hoddle, time to step down. "To be fair, you've bounced your point of view throughout and there is very little evidence of anything to be washed." You wouldn't know what fair was, you're a discriminatory narrow minded bigot. You don't understand the facts, it's beyond your level of intellect. "This is a good piece that states how they can be associated, but that it is not always the case" It wasn't a good piece although it does confirm that in PG's case there is a connection between the two and not separate as you demanded. "I have copied in the OT; it would seem an open question followed by a reasonable point of view, so have you appointed yourself the boards censor? You quote tired statements but have totally failed to enter reasonable discussion with real or enlightening substance." I answered the original post in a manner which surely even you could understand. I haven't asked to censor anything, that's you sonny. Can't understand (or don't want to) other peoples points of view so you try, poorly, to patronise & belittle their viepoint. Basically you're a ****. Crying about others not doing exactly what you're dong yourself. "Let's try this, do you accept you were wrong to dismiss my points and do you retract your insults?" But that would be wrong, your points are ignorant bollocks & you are a ****. "I ask that last one because the OT was very specific it was you who decided to bring other illnesses into it z some needlessly IMO." I answered the OT, "he's ill". It appears this was beyond your intellectual spectrum. Other illness comparisons were not needless, they highlighted people's lack of understanding of mental helth illnesses. "Stop trying to bully (you fail miserably) and try discussing, or just shut the **** up and do some reading." Read that & try to spot the irony. Like I said you're a ****. "In your process of belittling and insulting folk you have totally lost sight of the fact that, I, from the beginning, have accepted the link. I just don't accept it is a 100% coincidence and, in the case of Gasgoine, the two only became intertwined after quite some time." Again that is not the case. You attempt to belittle as you're not intelligent enough to understand the debate. You insult & bully, see above. You didn't accept the link, you said "The significant thing on here is that so many are lumping his alcoholism in with depression, even though they are seperate". Couldn't be clearer. You have no idea, apart from your red tops, when they became entwined. "Try separating the character from the theory." That's been easy for me. The difference is I understand the theory. "I told no one to f**k off, I told you to shut up , unless, of course, you can validate your nonsense" Yes you did, you don't even know you're doing it. It's all the bollocks you post. "Shut up?" Why should I shut up? You wouldn't be trying to bully me would you? Mental illness is not nonsense. Google another paper. I've offered to send you some from work. "have you ever been in the company of Paul Gasgoine?" "I've met PG, although that's irrelevant." "I've linked professional opinion: do you intend to keep blathering your argumentative opinion without anything more than, 'I've met Paul Gasgoine'?" Poor, the limited abstract from another authors paper does not purport to professional opinion. Only an idiot would think it does. I've met PG, that's irrelevant, appears, not surprisingly, a little hard for you to understand. "That's as poor a choice of words as I've read on here." Really? Did you not read this? " he can die for all i care." Your truer thoughts are becoming clearer. "She's a gold-digger how exactly. She knew him for quite a long time before they married, they had a child and he adopted hers from a previous, which probably explains the keeping of the name. You seem to attack her purely to support your twisted logic." It's an opinion I formed after reading about her, her circumstances prior to meeting him, her behaviour after they split, the fact she's kept his name, although she'd changed her name back to her maiden name immediately after her first marriage failed. The fact she's previously got involved in documentaries detailing his illness & then dropped him straight afterwards. She's a ****. My opinion, don't like it, in your own words, **** off. "Have you yet come to terms with the fact that some folk can be alcoholic, some depressive and some (60% according to your quoted sample) can have both?" Gormless ****, I've never said otherwise, it's you that's disputed the fact, only changing your opinio when it became apparent you're a know now arrogant twat. "As Charlie said earlier, we have all probably come up against these issues in our personal circles and one thing" When somebody else said this earlier your response was different. "Get off your high-horse, telling everybody the bloody obvious" Interesting. "I have learnt is that alcohol can change decent folk into demons, but sometimes it simply makes a waste of space a bigger waste of space. There is an urban legend that surrounds Paul Gasgoine, that infers that everyone thinks he is a lovely lad, a daft lad with a heart of gold; some might do, some say it so as not to rock the perception boat, but they really find him a self-centered fool who manipulates friends and relationships, often suffering the same himself. I would imagine someone will pay for his next detox and then he'll be out telling us all about it and how he gonna change the world, again. In the meantime his 'gold digging ex-wife' will continue to support herself and be a mother to her kids; how dare she, hey" You have an ignorant & narrow minded view of mental illness & alcoholism. You have a dislike of PG, probably Mackam led, & as such are unable to offer a balanced view on the subject matter. You make it up as you go along, changing your view accordingly. Like I said you're an ignorant ****. Yes that's an insult, get over it. Now get yoursen down club for a parnt o marld. Haway.
Depression and alcoholism are so closely related. Given the chance my mum would sup a bottle of vodka a day when she's ill. Yet when she's well she's well hardly drinks. The odd glass of wine when on a night or a couple of halfs in the pub after work. She rarely has big nights out.
Comedy Gold, nothing less. I'm going to pass on anything more than this for a response; but let me ask you this: are all of the bad people in this world excusable if, as as a consequence of their choices, they end up as alcoholic, depressive or both? This is the only point I have made in response to the OP, which you seem to have discounted and substituted with your own nonsense. What's with all of the assumptions, you've never met me?
I agree you are a rather funny old fart. Again you fail to respond. Your lack of answers or explanations only highlight your below average intellect. He gave his ex a slap, is he not entitled to a life after this, a job in his chosen field? He's paid his price for any crimes he may have committed why continue to judge him. It's hardly the worst crime in the world. He's not re-offended so what's your problem? Page one you responded to Macca & myself. Page two you responded to Macca, Patches, Ernie & myself. Page three & four were your most intelligent responses. You didn't post. Page five you responded to canada & Macca. Page six you responded to Peter, Benjo & Patches plus a pile of judgmental claptrap regarding PG. Page seven you responded to canada, myself & a single post about you not thinking PG should be able to work in coaching with HR. Page eight you responded to me, numerous times. Each post more embarrassing than the other. Point is you've not responded to the OP. You have attempted to be arrogant, knowledgeable & judgmental. You have attempted, rather poorly, to belittle posters with cheap jibes & patronising them. You were at least successful with your arrogance. You entered discussions on this thread for one reason. You don't like PG. You have no interest or knowledge regarding his illnesses & all the subjective **** you've posted & attempted to pass off as fact is the fantasy of a twisted mind. You're the king of making assumptions regarding people you don't know. Get over it, shut up about it or **** off. You know **** all.
Was it a slap, or did he punch her, or kick her, or throw her around; of course, in your world, this is not of too much consequence. (Just to be clear, this was not over a daft night of madness, but, as he admitted as far back as 1994, over a two year period - not too difficult to understand the terror involved, unless you simply consider it a 'slap') But never mind, we have the gist of your thinking. The rest is your usual tripe. By the way, do you believe someone, ill or otherwise, who has a significant history of alcohol/substance abuse, domestic and social violence and a very limited capacity to recognise right from wrong, should be allowed to be a part of any form of youth development? You seem to, whereas I certainly do not.
Describing it as tripe enhances my point that you have no point. I don't think it's the best place for him at the moment but think it, or something similar, may help in his recovery further down the line. I certainly don't see him as a danger to children. It's not as if he has a conviction for gang raping a 14 year old girl is it. But here's your words defending a convicted rapist who participated in the gang rape of a 14 year old girl. You think he's suitable to be working within the boundaries of a football club. That's a bit hypocritical don't you think? "This guy was a boy in very troubled circumstances; how good you all are, so well put together and feeling so able to condemn and throw away his life (but for the tolerance of others). He was a child, a boy, a juvenile - your adult judgment and lack of tolerance to his situation shames you. Like I said earlier, that is why I am grateful for our impartial justice system. You feel able to judge, good for you. I agree that he was wrong and knew that. I don't offer sympathy, only understanding that sometimes folk can change for the better; that is, of course, if we are prepared to give them that opportunity. Life, unlike some on here, is less than perfect. Trying to understand mitigating circumstances is beneficial to future prevention and accepting a young boy can, possibly, be rehabilitated is essential to civilisation." Recognise the words? Two faced ****, like I said you were only on here to cause a stir because of your Mackam influenced hatred of a Geordie, sad, sad ****. Good night.
You dig that out, post it out of context and then proceed to rant. You ignore your errors but proceed to focus on your notion of my motivation to hold an opinion in answering the OP question. You need help just as much as Gasgoine, perhaps more, as I believe you are off the sauce. Leave it now, you have proven you are a bigoted, chauvinistic fool, no more work to be done.
It's there to see, hide behind your ignorance. You have not responded to the OP. I'm fine, but thanks for your professional concern. Using words like chauvinist doesn't make you look clever, especially if you don't know what they mean. Dumb nuts.
