Some of the texts werent just between makay and moody (excuse sp) ... at least one from makay was to another employee in which it has been reported he texted or emailed cardiffs head of recruitment in a work context which said "can you tell the chink I will not take no for an answer" http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28910805 That is not a 'private' conversation....nor is it banter imo...and nor is it an ivasion of his privacy imo. Aparently he has agreed to go on diversity training...seriously, does he need training not to call people from se asia chinks or refer to jewish people as money grabbing? If he had sent a stupid joke text or email I would agree he was stupid or ignorant then he shouldnt be harrangued but ... well...I think that the more that comes out the more racist he comes across as
Private in the sense the texts where sent from one number to another, we don't know the full relationship Malky has with each person he texted as so far all we're hearing are the sensationalist views from papers and people from fight racism campaigns, so really Malky will find it impossible to defend himself as even if he isn't racist then he won't be given a chance. However as I posted above, Crooks, who would have likely been subjected to racism himself feels Malky should be given a chance to redeem himself and why not, why hang someone out to dry, this country loves hanging people out to dry and it is usually the self righteous people at the front making the most noise and that isn't a dig at anyone here as not saying anyone who has posted is self righteous, yet Redknapps comments where along similar lines as he is saying Malky should be allowed to prove he knows he made a mistake and given a chance to rebuild his career.
Careful, Boss. There is not one debate on Earth where I would want to cite Garth Crooks' point of view as evidence. In fact his saying that Mackay should be given a chance to redeem himself is making me think that maybe Mackay shouldn't be given a chance to redeem himself. Crooks is a singular moron. Whilst I know that the phone is a company phone and the person he's texting is a fellow employee I still think that there's an element of "private life" about it in that he's not saying these things to the press, he's not saying it to the team. Yes he's saying it to a fellow employee but how many friends do football managers have who do not work in football? Seems like it's a hell of a long-hours job and not much chance to maintain friendships with people not in the same line of business. I know that in a court of law and at the most accurate analysis it was not "private" but a text to a mate at work which happens to be on a company phone is a greyish area at least. And just as an aside it's worth bearing in mind that this sort of shaming and punishment does happen when the setting is 100% private. Did the story about Donald Sterling, owner of the LA Clippers get much air in the UK? http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...-angeles-clippers-owner-receives-life-ban-nba I've heard the tape and he is clearly an absolute, proper racist - a real nasty bastard who properly just doesn't like the idea of black people being around his young ****-buddy or whoever she was (bizarrely she was mixed race or something). I mean he is clearly an arsehole but should being an arsehole be a sackable, fineable offence? I feel very uneasy at the idea of this. Anyway if it happens in the US it's surely just a matter of time til 100% private exchanges can be used to condemn and punish people in the public eye in the UK, surely. I'm actually a relative fan of PC - I think that it's done a lot to civilise and mature society whilst making it a better place for many groups of people. But we are getting ourselves on very, very dodgy ground when we punish people for having unacceptable thoughts and using unacceptable language in private (and I think that texts between mates on company phones are basically private exchanges).
Crooks may well be a pundit that divides opinion (that's me being pleasant) but I see many people who are viewed as intelligent come out with comments which you would view as being idiotic so I'll judge each view on an individual basis and on this instance am happy to relieve Crooks of any apparent moron status as he's right in this case and offers a balanced view which you may not usually associate with him!
There are some good posts here, as has been said. Huddlefro's is very thoughtful. In fact I have always drawn the line against making racist or religiously offensive comments even in private--but have made sexist ones, absolutely. Somehow, somewhere, some way, we ought to keep in mind that much of what is funny is funny precisely because we shouldn't say it.
I appreciate that there are differing views on this subject. I would just add that this whole saga is starting to sound more than faintly Orweliian. Indeed, what is next, the thought police?
I can't see how it's overly PC to be offended at racist, homophobic or anti semetic comments. Fair enough it might not bother some people, but that doesn't mean it doesn't offend other people and is acceptable for a person in the public eye to say.
But king hotspur the point is it was not meant for everyone to see. It was a text sent to another person, a mate of his, it was never intended to be seen by people like you who would be offended. That is the whole point here. I bet a lot of texts I send to mates would offend a lot of people! Anyway as RCL said it's something we are not going to agree on but I must echo other comments on here that it has been a very interesting debate, a bit like the Scottish Independence thread. It makes a nice change from the football chat and there are some very interesting, intelligent people on the Spurs board that's for sure.
Fair enough. Yeah that's why I keep on using this forum. A good group of people with different views on many things but still manage to respect each other's views.
There are two worthwhile goals at war. Racist and bigoted speech is worth getting rid of. I fail to see its charms utterly, thanks to the good fortune of having parents who taught me to abhor it. I not only wince to hear it, I wince thinking about what a pig the person who has said it has made of him or herself. On the other hand, the Orwellian state is crawling in from the woodwork, and is undoubtedly using ostensibly good causes to encroach farther on our freedoms. I would be in favor of both strugges: against racist and bigoted speech, and against the encroaching Orwellian state, even if the latter may seek to use the former as a tool.
The comments only became offensive when Tan chose to make them public and others, including the victims, became aware of them. Whilst they remained private to the individuals concerned, nobody was caused offence. Whilst this doesn't make Mackay's behaviour acceptable, it makes it far more excusable. Whilst private, the victims were not made to feel abused, embarrassed etc. Others, like you, were not offended. No groups in society perceived hostility or disrespect towards them. This is an important distinction. At certain times, we are guilty of saying inappropriate things - intentionally, inadvertantly, jokily, bombastically, for machismo or bravado.....we all know that if we choose to do so publicly, there are different consequences than if we do so privately. Mackay shouldn't be treated as if the former was the case.
LDL agree that whilst the messages stayed private between them no one can be offended. But it still doesn't make it right. If his private messages were a lot worse/abusive/bigoted and nobody knew about them would that still be somewhat excusable as no-one knew about them. I don't think that is excusable. That is like saying a group of peados (apologies for the extreme example) talking about children and saying if no one finds out about and it is kept within that group it is fine. Not on the same level of casual racism but just a point that certain behaviours cannot be excused wether in private or public. In MM's case this was/is a man in a very senior position within football and earning big money and has brought his profession into disrepute.
I think what it boils down to is, if it can be shown that Mackay's inappropriate jibes, made in personal texts to a mate, represent his actual views on women, Jews, non white people etc, then that has to be him finished - and rightly so. If no evidence can be presented to prove that any previous actions give credence to his words, then he deserves a chance to try and rehabilitate himself. Let's face it, we've all made jokes, comments in a pub, etc, that on reflection were not exactly very P.C. it does not always follow that these represent our actual views.
I'd suggest that he even deserves a second chance if these texts do represent his real views, but only if he admits wrongdoing and does something about it. People are entitled to hold whatever views they want, regardless of how bigoted or stupid they may be, but they're not entitled to act upon them if it negatively affects someone else. Mackay's main problem will be finding a club that's willing to take him and all of this baggage on now. There'll be someone out there that's either desperate enough or who's chairman actually agrees with him, but I doubt it'll be a Premier League side.
But RRich the texts weren't " a lot worse" and of course if he was texting about sex with children then he would be rightly vilified for it!
Lord Ouseley: Football would 'collapse' if all texts revealed http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28917560
What other sports is McAllister talking about? Not American Football or boxing, clearly. I hate it when so-called experts pull crap like that out of their arse, as they're almost inevitably proven wrong. The "you don't see cheating like that in Rugby" lot were a big example of it.
Yeah its the usual "expert" view, these "experts" appear out of nowhere and offer their view, yet they need what is usually an over reaction before they have the confidence to pipe up! Football is the easy target as its viewed as the national sport but seen as one for "Pansies" that's the initial reaction from people who dislike football, overpaid drama queens. Ok there may be a few Yet overall football is no different to other sports and the behaviour of players/managers tend to be of a professional manner, yet because football is the sport which dominates press coverage then as soon as a controversy takes place, it escalates and turns into this huge story which should be a non event.
