You all know my view on this... Here is an article from the New Strait Times (a pro malaysian government, right wing national newspaper, established in 1845 and with a circulation of 200,000) MH17: Pockmarks look like from very, very heavy machine gun fire, says first OSCE monitor on-scene http://www.nst.com.my/node/20961 BY HARIS HUSSAIN - 7 AUGUST 2014 @ 11:05 AM KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth. In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined âFlight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shiftsâ, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said âsome US intelligence sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blameâ. This new revelation was posted on GlobalResearch, an independent research and media organisation. In a statement released by the Ukrainian embassy on Tuesday, Kiev denied that its fighters were airborne during the time MH17 was shot down. This follows a statement released by the Russian Defence Ministry that its air traffic control had detected Ukrainian Air Force activity in the area on the same day. They also denied all allegations made by the Russian government and said the countryâs core interest was in ensuring an immediate, comprehensive, transparent and unbiased international investigation into the tragedy by establishing a state commission comprising experts from the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and Eurocontrol. âWe have evidence that the plane was downed by Russian-backed terrorist with a BUK-M1 SAM system (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation reporting name SA-11) which, together with the crew, had been supplied from Russia. This was all confirmed by our intelligence, intercepted telephone conversations of the terrorists and satellite pictures. âAt the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never used any anti-aircraft missiles since the anti-terrorist operations started in early April,â the statement read. Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes â the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with âflechettesâ, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds. Parryâs conclusion also stemmed from the fact that despite assertions from the Obama administration, there has not been a shred of tangible evidence to support the conclusion that Russia supplied the rebels with the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet. Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk. Bociurkiw is a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with OSCE who, along with another colleague, were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after flight MH17 was brought down over eastern Ukraine. In the CBC interview, the reporter in the video preceded it with: âThe wreckage was still smouldering when a small team from the OSCE got there. No other officials arrived for daysâ. âThere have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,â Bociurkiw said in the interview. Parry had said that Bociurkiwâs testimony is âas close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as weâll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian, British or Ukrainian governments, each of which has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence. âThatâs powerfully authoritative testimony. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organising to come later,â Parry had said. Retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko had also weighed in on the new shootdown theory with Parry and pointed to the entry and exit holes centred around the cockpit. âYou can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30mm caliber projectile. âThe edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes, show shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent â outwardly.â He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airlinerâs starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel) hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane. âIt had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenkoâs main discovery. You canât have projectiles going in both directions â into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides â unless they are coming at the panel from different directions. âNobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,â Parry had said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4 video of the interview by the Canadian investigator talking about bullet holes in the plane.. (amazing when you consider it was supposidly shot down with a ground to air missile)
What a load of bullshit, there has been tons of fighting over the past weeks around the site. It's more likely that those holes are caused by that. No way in hell a machine gun can take down a plane 30,000 feat high!!! www.wired.com/2009/09/how-high-does-a-bullet-go/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...un-circle-the-planet-and-hit-you-in-the-back/ Consensus is 10,000 feet is the very very highest you can go
The Ukrainian airforce su25 planes are fitted with 30mm cannon. http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/ They are saying that there were 2 SU25's in the air at the time. (still amazing that no ATC info has been released by the Ukrainians!!) You are assuming that the plane was at 30000 feet. This hasn't been confirmed yet as both the block box recording and the ATC info haven't been released. The only information that has been released is information given by the Ukrainians to the West and regurgitated by the US and Europe. The Ukrainians have done pretty well out of this tragedy especially when at the time, just be before it they were on the back foot in the East of the Ukraine... coincidence?
Hasn't it been confirmed by independent inspectors that the rips in the plane's bodywork are consistent with rips caused by SAM's? They penetrate with a drill-like corkscrew effect, if I'm not mistaken. Seems conspiracy theorists cause yet more unnecessary trollop without a moments thought for the families of the victims. They're still banging on about 911, some of them even try to say that no planes hit the towers, ****ing idiots if you ask me.
Why does the other view of MH17 have to be classed as a conspiracy? In fact, the only information that the west have at the moment is being fed by the Ukrainians. With no firm information or corroborating evidence to back up any of their claims. Total theory from the Ukrainians and the Americans. Even some respected US journalists are disputing the West claims of the events. read this.... Bob Parry US Journalist who is famous for breaking the Iran Contra affair... http://larouchepac.com/node/31501 911 was a different kettle of fish, there was evidence of the planes hitting the towers. There is just as much released evidence that the Ukrainians had as much to do with it as the rebels and if it were my family member in MH17 i'd be damned sure that I would want to know the truth about what happened. But then again the governments expect people to blindly believe....
Sorry mate but I only read that bold bit, then seen the patronising wink. Fact is mate, there's hundreds of stupid stories made up every day and that was my point. This type of media makes it's way onto the web before it becomes fact more often than not, so I'm inclined to call bullshit on it, regardless of the source. I'm sure them Mayans threw enough **** to get something right along the way too. I have a 'friend' who is obsessed with reading Zero Hedge, and it's all facts written by reputable boring bastards on there as well apparently but he's a paranoid freak.
Now that I've read the rest of your post Sanddancer, yeah, it might be plausible that the Ukranians were responsible but for me this air-to-air pre-meditated act of terrorism is just a bit hard to swallow. From the victim's families point of view I would definitely want to know but I wouldn't want to be force-fed more 'potential theories' until they were absolute fact. Animating new scenarios in their minds and reliving that moment over and over in their heads is punishing beyond belief.
Russia never really invaded Georgia in 2008 and walked away with some of it's land. Russia never annexed Crimea, walking away with more land. Russia aren't arming the separists in Ukraine. Russia aren't blatantly trying to take land from Ukraine and make Russia even bigger again. Russia aren't really preparing thousands of troops and artillery on the Ukraine border. The Americans are responsible for 9/11 The holocaust never really happened. Elvis is still alive. No man has ever walked on the moon. Bin Laden isn't really dead. Poland are a super duper power
Land of the... Free and the Home of the brave! Thats me told! Cheers Bud Like an advert for American ****! By the way check your history before posting
The poor buggers have already been fed a scenario of a rouge russian blowing the plane up. Least they deserve is truth.
forget your wall street journal, your times, your guardian, the new straits times has got all the facts you need. ****ing wackjob.
Aye mate you're right. Anybody who doesn't believe the **** that the western press puts out must be a nut job. Thanks for putting me right! By the way Iraq does have WMDs!
all credible evidence demonstrates the plane was shot down by a surface to air missile from within rebel held territory. the rebels had access to this technology due to their backing from russia. the rebels shot down ukrainian military planes in the weeks before this happened. all of this evidence dictates that the russian-backed rebels accidentally shot the plane down, mistaking it for a ukrainian military jet. this weird conspiracy theory you are yammering on about is half amusing (as in we're laughing at you in your tin foil hat), half insulting to the victims. remember, the burden of proof should be on you if you are going to cling to a wild theory that is unsupported by current evidence. so please, go ahead and explain why all of the above is incorrect.
