This is not about whether LFC need to be in the CL or not, nor is it a thread about attracting the top players as I think we all might agree that being in the champions league is crucial for that My question to you all is simply this; Is the money I will show below all that vital when you put it in the context of what every premier league club takes in? here is the raw date: 1. Champions league: Source: http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/uefa-champions-league-tv-prize-money-distribution/ Data: Playoffâs prize â¬2.1 million Group Stage (Base Money for all 32 Teams) â¬8.6 million Every Group Game Win â¬1 million Every Group Game Draw â¬500,000 Round of 16 â¬3.5 million Quarter-Finals â¬3.9 million Semifinals â¬4.9 million Runner-Ups â¬6.5 million Winners â¬10,5 million Now the site tells me that Real madrid won it and took â¬62million of those funny euro monopoly money notes. However further down the story for the 4 english clubs is posted Chelsea â¬40.9mil = £32.5mil Man Utd: â¬39.3mil = £31.3mil Arsenal â¬34.5mil = £27.5mil City: â¬32.4mil = £25.8mil 2. Premier league money: Sauce: http://www.sportrichlist.com/articles/english-premier-league-prize-money-2014/ Merit money £1.2m for every place each club finishes up the table (up to £24m for champions) Facility fees £750,000 for every live match of a club or £7.5m for season which ever is higher Domestic TV Deals Equal share of domestic TV deals (£23 million for every club) Overseas TV deals Equal share of foreign TV deals (£32 million for every club) So thats £32 + $23 + £22.8mil + £7.5mil min for LFC = £85.3million
for the record my view is that the Champions league deal must be old and i's say due renewal! Its a big deal to say Ajax or Celtic or Benfica/porto but the way the prem deal is set up surviving in the prem is worth 60 odd million before any live tv game revenue. I guess i can understand a lot of mid table clubs not breaking the bank chasing that 25-30million extra especially if a lallana now costs 25mil
Well the premier league gives little incentive financially to actually win it, City actually earnt less than us in TV money from the prem last year. Whereas the CL gives £25m+ to the english clubs in it which is not available to other clubs. To me (financially) it's equally as important as bagging a very compettive kit/sponsorship deal. the other bonus to CL is you get increased revenue from gate receipts too, plus players want to play for you
yes gate moeny for at least say 4 games is worth quite a bit. thats a good point. its in theory a full crowd not a 20k crowd at europa for example. I guess yes CL helps attract players and helps attract sponsors but the actual prize moeny isn't that much NOW whereas 5 years ago we were probably talking about it being crucial to wage structure etc? is that wrong thinking?
That's true, but the prem has only just renegotiated tv rights etc, I'm not sure how this works with the CL? CL is also crucial in order to keep high sponsorship revenues (ie if United fail to get CL next year Adidas will reduce their sponsorship payments by 30%)
The thinking is wrong. Winning any trophy has rarely been about money. this is a recent phenomenon. Did any one win big money for winning the old first division? No. but clubs spent big trying to win it.
is that not a separate but very valid point about actual achievement rather than simply finance? You are quite right winning is winning and that breeds separate sponsorships and all sorts. But... i am thinking that the financial incentive that was so important to get 4th is now not such an incentive at least on its own. an extra 25-30mil on the pile seems to be not so vital given 60mil just handed to you before any gate moeny of your own is just massive. If half the prem can spend 20mil on a player its not quite the same as in spain where the rest get 30-10 mil max.
I think it depends what club you're talking about. Liverpool have been setup to be self sustaining, we continue to reduce the wage build and don't pin all our hopes on being in the CL season in season out. Wages are set in accordance with this too paying a basic wages with bonus payment boosting the players pay, pretty sure this will include being in the CL somehow too. Obviously, that's not quite as easy as it sounds as we've still been making a loss in recent times.
that is also very true. i was just talking to a Southampton fan (yes one actually in real life who didn't hit a reds fan) yesterday. They finish 8th and probably took in 75mil from tv deals last year. they took in 100mil form player sales! however now nobody wants to join them despite being awash with cash. They need never finish top 4 to be waht we'd have called extremely rich 5 years ago. anyway if we are self sustianing eventually by balancing revenue off field with expenditure on wages etc without the the CL great. I just wonder if its now much easier to do that due to just being in the prem! I dunno...
I know its not exactly world beating deals but they've signed Bertrand and Taider recently, two very good young signings. Obviously they need more since they've lost Lovren, Lallana, Lambert, Chambers, Osvaldo and Shaw. Sustaining: as I said before, much easier to say than do. We could feasibly achieve that goal but how competitive could we be under those terms? I think there will be a time when we need to speculate to accumulate again, there will be a point when we have to gamble on getting a regular top four finish otherwise we'll go season by season hoping for a bolt out of the blue like last year.
Don't forget that from next year the British TV money pot for the CL, gets much bigger due to the new BT deal. Those figures you posted are prize money only. There is TV revenue from your own TV market (UK in pools case) to be divided up between the British clubs.
Some detailed figures from 11/12 give an Idea: http://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Finance/01/84/05/87/1840587_DOWNLOAD.pdf This year the prize money will be bigger as per the OP. From next year UK TV market money will approx double.
heres an interesting one swansea (who were crap) 3'950'698 total prize. so they risked 70mil english league money to get 4millino euro. In short the price of a successful cup run and europa league could be very high so hull beware... play reserves and survive in league! spurs pulled 6mil total.. pathetic another interesting one i noted previously is french market pool marseilel took 32'415'000 from on group stage exit and juve took 43'098'000 which is massive for a club that f'd up their gorups so that shows the market pool effect.
It's not just the Champions League money. It's the TV money. It's not just the TV money- it's the gate receipts. It's not just the gate receipts, it's the better sponsorship deals you get from being in the CL. It's not just the better sponsorship deals you get from being in the CL it's the better kit deals you get from being in the CL. It's not just the better kit deals you get from being in the CL- it's the better players you get that enable you to do better in the league so you can qualify for CL all over again and get better gate receipts etc from non CL games! I'd suspect the real value of being in the Champions League is in excess of £50million a year. (as a conservative estimate)
its still less than english prem money would it not be the case that a club like spur would be better off going all out for a cup and taking their shed loads and getting local sponsorhip than chasing the CL. anyway... I've a new question. If its so vital still why do some of us think utd will be back now they fell out and the same might go for the state of ac milan? I mean when we fell out the sky was falling in but we got back so nw when the prem generates so much utd shouldn't even register a loss? I mean f sake burnely are going to get 70mil form the prem.
It's still a huge chunk of cash that people not in the Premier League won't be getting... Take your Burnley example... that would be close to doubling their annual income! The other advantage is- more overseas fans- more sales of shirts, etc... Better players- so potentially next year you do better in PL and get more money from that... and get back in PL- so another £50m+ from that. (minimum) No one really cares too much about the other cups anymore (unless they're already in the semi finals) - you wouldn't get the same sponsorship from it. Everyone stops to watch the Champions League finals even if their team isn't in it. Lots of people skip the League Cup final if their team isn't in it. I think they'll challenge but only get 5th personally. They've still got masses of money... their shirt deal alone that they just signed is more per annum than some clubs get out of the CL directly in other countries. They're going for big name signings (whilst we're going for Lamberts and Lallanas and squad fillers). Their manager is a little bit better than the one they had last season. They're definitely closing the gap on us over the summer... I don't think they'll catch us and we'll still get 4th... but they've closing the gap on us significantly over the summer.
I've not read all this so sorry if it's already been said But it's the TV money which is the big one. I think each Prem club gets £25m for the group stages, and if you go further that increases. That's also if there are 4 teams in the groups. If Arsenal go out, we get £33m (a 1/3 of the tv money) and same happens if only 1 or 2 English clubs get through the knockouts. Also, next year is when it will have a huge impact as BT Sport take over next year and the TV money is set to increase massively. That's why it's so important to get into the CL next year.
