I read up a bit on him..he's a self claimed rival within the party to Net(not even bothering to spell his name lol) he plans to take over the leadership and turn Israel from a state of Jews into a true Jewish state whatever the hell that means. His ramblings are extremely hawkish.... It would be interesting to see how Israelis react to him though. He obviously has a base if he's got himself a position like deputy speaker but then again I haven't a notion who the deputy speaker of our assembly or Westminster is so how important a position that is it really?
I bet you did not watch this Dave, Eran Afrati. [video=youtube;93hqlmrZKd8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hqlmrZKd8&feature=player_embedded[/video] he talks about being on the wrong side of the holocaust after groing up being determined to stop one. Talks about being in the IDF and how the IDF shot an 8 year old and then arresting his father for trying to bring the body to the cemetary during curfew which was on because of a Jewish holiday and Palestinians were not aloowed out of their homes while the Jews celebrate. He talsk about him at 19, having trained for war for 7 months, was able to shut down a city, by screaming the word curfew and Palestinians had to stay indoorsuntil they heard different. In that instance they reported they killed aterrorist and arrested another one. In many instances the IDF killed children and civilians in general and then reported them as terrorists. That is the truth, deal with you you delusional fool You wont watch that I know you wont, first hand accounting of what is happening in israel and you will ignore it because it goes against allt he lies you believe. Putting bombs in childrens backpacks, what a load of BOLLOCKS You can really see how disgusted he is by what he witnessed, he talks about how is holocaust surviving grandmother's nightmare screams were the same as the screams of mothers of children the IDF killed. How many kids were killed and reported as terrorists? we will never know
Calll a ceasefire then level a house and kill a little girl and injure 29 others. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/w...partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimesworld&_r=1
Victim speak. Holocaust exploitation. nasty piece of **** is Bill Maher please log in to view this image
Why doi I need to watch it Sisu as you give a fine outline of what it contains. Now I know that both you and Tobes are challenged when it comes to any understanding outside of your own bigotry (your following posts testify to that). You can try and try to define that me as both a delusional fool or an apologist for the Israelis but the truth is already published in this thread regarding my position. Therefore both of you remain liars when it comes to my position.
Everyone seems to have assumed that after the events of individual persecution and in particular the holocaust the Jewish people (in its entirety or sections of)would learn positive lessons...a sensitivity to the suffering of others....a rejection of violence...that they'd sit in yet another designated area hoping no one would want to exterminate them. Or sit as minorities in other people's communities for ever more. Christians didn't do that, Muslims are striving for states of their own. Why were the Jews not expected to attempt the same? Why did they have to abide by a moral code none of our states initially played by? Surely realism has set in now. That the lessons of a millennia are dark ones..."might is right", "weaken and destroy your enemies before they have the ability to destroy you"...."be the strongest most ruthless guy on the block". "If it means expanding to survive do so"....All of our countries adopted this approach to secure our future against all those that wanted to possess us. All our countries have committed attrocities in the name of survival. It was only once secured, we started to play nice...at least with our neighbours (and today is a dark reminder of just how far we went with our neighbours before attempting a different path how it was still military might that decided the outcome, not passive moral indignation). Is it not hypocrisy to sit in our well furnished ivory towers telling others not to do the same? It's going on as we speak in African countries. I genuinely don't understand why there's such a reaction against it in this particular situation rather than in Sudan (on going), Rwanda,The Congo, Cambodia, China ......(All happened during the same period).....oh wait Tibet was a popular cause at one point....why did that go out of fashion? Fairly sure they're still oppressed and brutalized by the Chinese. What is it that attracts westerners (I get the kinship felt in the surrounding countries where it exists) empathy for a Palestinian rather than the Sudanese, Cambodian or Congolese? Don't get me wrong I remember journalists reporting on these, charity ads etc...but they all died down. The situations are either still unresolved or were resolved from within. It was never a conscious lead intervention by the rest of the world that stopped it which is being demanded now. But I don't even remember such volumous outrage, protests on various nations streets etc...and in all the others, western or eastern imperial powers were responsible be it from an imperial past or random line drawing as in this one....innocent people were butchered, ****, in some they had armies of children doing the raping and the butchering. Where were the equivalent street protests then? Look I'm not saying it's wrong to be disgusted with the suffering of innocent people I just bemused that the outrage seems to be greater here compared to bigger genocides, opressions etc etc I'm not being a smart arse. Tell me why you feel more empathy for a Palestinian than a Sudanese or Cambodian or a Rwandan?. What is it you think you as an individual can do that engages you more in this conflict than the others? What makes your empathy selective?
The media says not a lot about inside Israel. it's like a country of defence league people. in fact worse, they are not calling for turning a place people live into a cemetery Even saying things like "people who want to stop the war should be sert to the gas chambers. This is Israel, mostly right wing f**ing lunatics, this is the sociocide Netanyahu and his evil f**wit cronies have committed on their own people by militarising society brainwashing them with propaganda, telling them they are special, gods chosen and replacing Judaism with Zionism. Allowing open racism to be a part of society, in fact imbuing them with racism. Hunting down people who criticise the war and harassing their employers to fire them, this is what happens, they turn on even their own because they are so f**ing brainwashed with hate [video=youtube;Pa9lTvEr32w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pa9lTvEr32w[/video]
Dirty frank, the outrage is that unlike the Congo etc Israel is a civilised and relatively western country that is also under the wing of the US. so for them to recklessly lay waste to gaza, killings hundreds of children in the process, is condemnable. Hence the outrage from the UN and fatty Cameron and most of our society quite frankly
I accepted the reasons for general condemnation as given. It's the level and the specific calls for specific action. It's the ferocity of support. The protests, the marches etc..Why are we more outraged about Palestinian children dying in their hundreds than tens of thousands in various African and Asian countries...? More children died in all the other examples over much shorter timeframes. In practical terms the world could have imposed its will on all the others except Tibet, north Korea and possibly Cambodia (is China not considered civilised it's one of the oldest intact civilisations still around?) at least Much more easily than with Israel. Yet it was the same UN inaction but a Hell of a lot less outpouring of outrage than now. Are we only outraged if countries the US support are killing children..?.I mean where's the street protests for the thousands of children and their parents killed in North Korea? I mean China supports them.....we have trade relations with China, we seem to accept hollow words of condemnation of them and no more than that from our politicians..and happily buy more Chinese goods to fill our homes. Where did the Tibet protests go? Will the Palestinian ones go the same way? According to Palestinian supporters there's never been anything civilised about Israel....unless you mean they do their killing with fighter planes and missiles instead of AK47's and Machetes. They've been aggressive to all their neighbours since creation.they were born in violence and lived in violence since then. Why would they be psychologically different to Africans or Asians striving to form states on cultural or ideological lines? Why would we expect more from them than an Asian or an African? Education levels of the soldiers perhaps? They may go to school and university but they are no less indoctrinated in their states view of the world than the others......All of the leaders in question were educated, most of them in the West. Now I'm coming from the POV that all the accusations levelled against Israel are correct to simplify things. Why is the death of a Palestinian child worth more protest than that of a Rwandan? All of the African countries were under a superpowers wing at some point. I don't understand the differences you used there Sir Red. The innocent were out numbered and out armed in all the cases. It was a more powerful group of humans killing a powerless group of human beings....and yet we seem to be publicly more sympathetic and prepared to act more (at least in our jumping up and down on the spot) than in all the other cases. I'm not trying to make a pro Israel point here as I'm not sure there even is one on this line of thought, I'm genuinely intrigued. But I'm fairly sure I'm not going to get an answer that makes sense logically as its surely impossible to intellectualise a reason why one baby blew up is not as protest worthy as another........im actually sorry I started this line of thought now.
Frank, you asked the biggest question earlier when you asked why Westeners in particular assume a prescribed set of lessons that the Jews should automatically accept as a result of the Holocaust. However, if you had suffered so greatly are you not more likely to make sure that it doesn't happen again - at any cost and/or return to the Jewsih Law of an eye for an eye?
It’s all Hamas’ fault, right Israel? More than 1,200 Gazans have been killed, about 80 percent of them civilians. But Israelis’ hands are clean and their consciences are quiet - so quiet you could cry. - By Gideon Levy Haretz| 05:28 31.07.14 http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.608118 Far more than 1200 now.
Cocaine head Clinton, and the devil himself. Just listen to these freaks of nature. Scary that this coke snorting lunatic may be the next US president!! [video=youtube;13RrastK23U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13RrastK23U&feature=player_detailpage[/video] 3 Israelis dead, most of their injured get injured falling when running to their shelters. what are we now 1500 or more Palestinian civilians dead and they still talk about f**ing rockets. Thousands injured. 20 members of the one family wiped out.
What war is Israel fighting? It's a serious question. As nobody can condone the actions it is presently taking in relation to the threat that appears to be currently presented from Hamas, then why is it continuing with its actions? I truly don't buy that Israel is merely a bloodthirsty monster of a state who chooses to use its military might merely because it can. I therefore forward the notion that Israel is not fighting the conflict that we see before us, it is already fighting the next one in which it fears that it could be at a serious strategic disadvantage - maybe a critical one. Hamas rockets have been mainly an irritant to Israel. Firstly they were very limited with a range of merely a few miles and little or no control. Now, even though the control is still lacking, the range of the Hamas rockets has increased significantly to the point where Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are within range. Now think back to the panic that occurred in Israel when Saddam modified Scuds so that they had the range to hit Israel from Iraq. IF Israeli intelligence is suggesting that such a major step was being planned by Hamas then there may be some greater rationale for Israel's actions - though still not acceptance. Let's take this process one critical and possible step forward. To date, Hamas rockets have carried explosives. Just add the possibility that Israel believes that Hamas either has, or is planning to acquire chemical weapons form the unstable supply that exists all around it. No matter how big the Israeli military is it has little to no defence against such a threat. I have no inside line. I am merely looking for reasons as to why Israel continues on its present course not only wreaking carnage on Gaza but also risking its relations with supportive Western states. So I ask the question is Israel fighting the next conflict?
The holocaust gives Israel no excuse for its action nor mindset. The rational reaction would be to seek to ensure that NO-ONE should ever from the attrocity of genocide, and not to excuse (once again) their hideous actions in Palestine. An eye for eye? It's more like murdering your entire family in return for a split lip. But of course you're not seeking to excuse their behaviour 'God' forbid eh?
There doesn't always need to be a reason for the scale other than that Israel are just a very paranoid country that are terrified that what they have could all be lost. There is every reason to combat Hamas, who would love Israel to be pushed back to the sea, but not in the way Israel have done to date. It's like using a nuke to kill an ant, there is no reason for the wide scale destruction of gaza and innocents. I also think erecting a huge bloody wall shows you the mindset of Israel, they have no desire to reconcile with the Palestinians. They almost want to live in cloud cuckoo land in a utopian jewish state. It's never going to happen. They need to work on a solution that will include palestine. Lift the blockade for a start and provide the palestinans with aid and (longer term) perhaps even infrastructure and education programs. Palestine is dirt poor now and all this bombing will lead to more poverty and more people turning to violence against Israel and joining Hamas and Fatah.
