Tobes, you can't have it both ways. If someone stated to you "if Hamas gave a stuff about "it's people" they'd not hide among them and wage military action" you'd laugh and say but that would get them annihilated...correct? Is that not defending them under your own rules? They have a choice....use force don't use force, if using force, hide among cuvillians or don't hide among civillians...they've chosen to put the civilians at risk..a justification is a justification it doesn't remove the responsibility of making that choice...... Now I don't know if they fired at Israelis from the location of UN schools and you can debate whether it was wise even if they did for the Israeli response. What you can't argue against is an increase in negative press from the first school strike and then within a week there's a second inccident with the same claims. Now as has been stated on this thread the Israelis have a pretty slick PR set up in western countries but even they have been stretched justifying the two strikes......its certainly, if true an advantageous strategy by Hamas that's results are getting a better reaction outside the area than before....them. Although talking about that slick PR team...it clearly isn't in country......Moshe Feiglin...deputy speaker of the Knesset asking for "tented camps" to be set up to put removed populations of Palestinians as they clear the Gaza strip. And "annihilation of nests of resistance" Dear God, if Jewish communities dont flinch at that language and condemn it then they really have lost all reason and memory in their hatred and paranoia. No PR team in the world won't be able to hide the imagery of ghetto, to transportation of civilians to concentration camps with death squads roaming the emptting ghettos removing resistance....if that starts happening you're looking at the end of Israel...even the Yanks couldn't defend that.
I wouldn't be so sure mate. Israel is seemingly beyond any form of rebuke from Washington. Even that level of 'cleansing' would be met with little more than a sternly worded 'can you stop that please'........ Livtor's map sums up the entire issue really.
I dunno Tobes. If they truly didn't care they wouldn't have all these guys ready to come on every tv and radio show that mentions the conflict to keep putting their side out. They're obviously not THAT sure of never-ending western support. If old monied Yanks start seeing news pieces with comparable images from Germany then and Gaza now....I mean the dipshit was even talking about any Arabs that stayed had to carry blue identity papers as a show of loyalty....****, why didn't he just say sow a crescent moon on their jackets... It's all in his own verified Facebook site, linked to the official Knesset . He might as well have titled it "My Final Solution to the Palestinian question"
The mere fact that this idiot is a senior figure in their parliamentary set up and yet feels he can publicly share such outlandish thoughts, shows that his views are probably more 'mainstream' than we would care to want to believe imo. He's vocalising what they want to see the end game as. Is he being vilified on his own soil for this? Thought not..... Therefore it can't come as a great surprise to the Shermans nor the Jewish power behind the throne in Washington.
Dunno Tobes, I'm not a great Facebook user...I tried to access his page but there appear to be different versions..the one in English does not have the letter, the one in French does but it seems to be French responders. The one on the mails story (I know , source but they've been notoriously quiet on the conflict so I was suprised this story came up) appears to be in Hebrew? Funny enough...I can't find that page though. The mail doesn't give any reaction comments either from within or without of Israel. If someone who knows what they are doing could look it up. The mail stated it got 2000 likes but there's not a dislike button so negative reaction tends to be in the comments if it exists....would be interesting to see the Israeli reaction.. And if it's been removed , that suggests its maybe not as popular an expression as you might think......
Honestly , it's phrases added at the end like this that undermine you on this topic..it really does give the Yanks (& British)a get out clause to dismiss your arguments as crazy conspiracy talk when there are plenty of other strategic reasons past and current for US and UK support for Israel other than the "Jewish lobby." But I've been through this sub topic before on this thread and can't be arsed going over old ground.
Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620
There's plenty of strategic reasons for the West's support of Israel, I never said there wasn't. But there's also a massive Jewish lobby, both open i.e. AIPAC - arguably the most powerful political lobby in the US and not so open.....to argue otherwise is beyond naive.
I'll post this again Irish senator David Norris during a government meeting on when he worked in Israel in some official function "I confirmed it at the highest diplomatic level in Israel. Israel created Hamas to split the moderate Fatah" [video=youtube;keS-LDl_ewA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keS-LDl_ewA[/video] I have read about this in many places but this is an astounding claim, and I sincerely doubt it is lies, it took balls to come out and say that, not that the media would ever cover it. Israel created Hamas, what else is there to say about rockets and tunnels Israel does not want peace, it has systematically obstructed peace over and over.
Reporters without borders Israeli army deliberately targeting news professionals http://en.rsf.org/palestine-violence-escalating-against-08-07-2014,46605.html Israel are beyond the ****ing pale.
Correction Norris said "Isreal created Hamas. I had that confirmed at the highest level in the foreign ministry in Jerusalem." The truth is th CIA and Mossad created Hamas The new snowden leaks just out show that the US is actually providing intelligence on targets in Gaza and has been for a long time.
They are just annihilating the place, look at the destruction. [video=youtube;z2jFmbUAH_k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z2jFmbUAH_k[/video]
Fairly sure that award goes to the chamber of commerce ....and I'd even say there's a few other more powerful lobbies influencing the govt in that direction say, energy and arms.....those three are much more likely to influence US foreign policy than the Jewish, particularly a Rebulican party who's grass root members would just as happily string a Jew up to the same tree as an Arab.....anyone that's witnessed the Reublican party since Reagan knows it hasn't ignored its grass roots it's played to them. Democrats you've a bit more of an argument with....but I'd still say the other three are more responsible in that if it went against THEIR interests Israel's support in the US wouldn't be as strong. There's those crazy extreme positions again. Who argued that the Jewish lobby didn't exist?...I disagreed that pressure groups of a religion traditionally distrusted and even persecuted in Christian countries hadn't somehow developed cyberman like control of said countries leaders....they throw money and get heard more than some others, sure, but I think it's a myth those same leaders and us prefer as it shifts the blame to the shadows rather than themselves... As I said before, it's a nice conspiracy for western people to absolve themselves of the fact their cosy lives have resulted in blood elsewhere due to the choices of those we've elected providing us with the lifestyle we demanded and not being fussy how they did it and who they propped up along the way.
Further to the Reporters without borders article, footage of inside building being hit with reporters in them by the IDF [video=youtube;fUapXtHjoPw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUapXtHjoPw&feature=player_detailpage[/video] Trying to silence news coming out
By above point: Take a look at the revised casualty figures issued by the UN as against the Hamas figures from previous conflicts and then tell me that hamas does not have a history of over declaration. As a supposed director then you should at least be aware that PR can work both ways. The higher the number the greater the approbation on Israel. So yes it's good PR for Hamas - worked on you didn't it! Yes they have. Gaza is supposed to be part of the fledgling Palestinian state. When did you hear of Hamas asking the UN to assist with the transportation of women and children, old and sick to the West Bank? So what's more important to Hamas - defending itself with a trapped human shield or truly lookin after the interests of those who live in the area they control? Again you clearly demonstrate your limited understanding of the strategies in play here. PROBABLY was a carefully considered response. I do not know what is truly driving Israeli strategy. Unlike you I am not prepared to jump to any particular conclusion. I don't trust what I hear out of Israel. Neither do I trust what I hear from Hamas so all I can do is work on the balance of probabilities. The fact that you merely ignore the rest of what I posted demonstrates to me that I'm probably talking to a plank!
Don't have to change my position 1 iota. You obviously haven't been listening. Now run off and think again.
This type of comment from 'politicians' isn't anything new - smacks of Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech to me.
