Joey giving it large on Israel

Pity they weren't more adult about it a few weeks ago before they murdered hundreds of innocent men, women and children but there you go.

 

Not really. He is trying hard I suppose and has some entertainment value. I don't disagree with everything he says on principle. But he and many others have got this very wrong if they think this is just about religion. Sadly that is increasingly a factor, on the Palestinian side especially, but mainly its about land and identity.

This isn't a Barton as player thread, but I do fear for him in the prem - he was hardly impressive last time he played there 2 seasons ago, and it hasn't got any easier.

 

There is fault on both sides.

 

No doubt. However the Lions share is obviously on the Israeli side. The body count alone, not only in this recent outbreak, is ridiculously one-sided. Add who actually started the conflict into the mix and its clear where the blame lies. What they've done these past few weeks is inject a new dose of hatred, fanaticism and victimhood into a new generation of Palestinians which will ultimately put off a peaceful solution for the future and lead to more bloodshed. They are gangsters and criminals and having been the victims themselves in the past, they have now become the victim makers.

A child having been bullied in the schoolyard often becomes a bully themselves.

 

Hammas do themselves no favours at all. If they realised that most of the world is sick of what Israel does and decided to completely cut out the missile attacks and stopped trying to get gunmen through these tunnels, then they might actually get somewhere. But while they continue to do such things there isn't much the world can do to stop Israel, cause while Israel actions are deplorable, you can't challenge the fact they are also being attacked.

It's a mad mad world and it's only going to get worse.

 

This.

There simply isn't the will on either side to put an end to the hatred.

 

If someone keeps throwing stuff at your house do you take it just because your windows are double glazed ?

 

Israel was borne of terrorism, Begin was one of the most notorious before their country was 'created' and since the first day of it's existence it has been virtually perpetually at war with it's neighbours. When any politician attempts to broker a peaceful solution they are usually assassinated by their own people, as happened to Sadat.

As others have said, there is far too deep-seated hatred on both sides for this sad situation to ever be resolved, and if it was every effort would be made to derail a peace process...

 

You should be more concerned about the Dubs coming down to bate yis tomorrow than any middle-eastern conflict, Tipp

 

A lot of opinions given by people who have no idea!

 

Oh and you do I suppose?

 

Absolutely this!

If we look back in time, would you have said the French resistance during Nazi occupation were terrorists? Palestinian land has been onder Israeli occupation for 40 years (comment by Ban-Ki Moon), every border is closed, the Israelis decide who can go and where, they have not had even basic human rights. The jews in Poland used tunnels to get out of the ghettos after Nazi Germany occupied Poland! And i'm sure the French resistance sould have used missles against the Nazi occupiers if they had them. Would you be throwing stones at the occupiers and do whatever it takes, if your homeland was under occupation and you had not even the basic human rights? A UN human rights investigator stated in March this year, 3 months before this current conflict escalated, that "Israel Guilty of Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/israel-guilty-ethnic-cleansing-apartheid-says-un-rapporteur-1441350

About the using of human shields, the only ones reporting this is Israel and the IDF (comically Israeli Defence? force). There are many reports from Gaza, including this one http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/07/jeremy-bowens-gaza-notebook-i-saw-no-evidence-hamas-using-palestinians-human stating the opposite. In fact there are eye witness reports telling how Israeli soldiers, during the ground offence have been using human shields http://www.imemc.org/article/68607

Israel started the ground op on the grounds that Hamas kidnapped and murdered 3 israeli teens. Now it turns out the kidnappers had nothing to do with Hamas, much like Saddam never had any WMDs when the US went to Iraq on the pretense. The kidnapping and killing of the Israeli teens was a retaliation committed for murdered Palestinian teen few days before. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

Israel has violated UN security council resolutions 165 times http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/. The previous cease fire was broken on the same day it was signed by the Israelis http://blog.thejerusalemfund.org/2012/12/israeli-ceasefire-violations-in-gaza.html What is going on in Palestine is an Ethnic cleansing and a genocide, supported by Israeli Parliament, Knesset and US government. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/

The ultimate goal for Israel is to control all the Palestinian land and its resources http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39050.htm.

Rant over!

 

LMFAO

 

Love your sources, I guess they're not biased!

 

your saying CNN, MSNBC, BBC, Sky and most of the other western sources aren't bias, for posting only pro-Israeli ****?
Richard Falk, an American Jew, emeritus law professor at Princeton University, must be bias against Israel?
Or the fact anyone can check from UN about the UN security council resolutions, publishing that is bias? Or publishing what an Israeli MP posts in her facebook profile?
Think about it for a while.

 

I thought about it.

 

Everybody can quote 'sources', on either side, to back up their own opinions. There are more biased websites for / against the two sides in this dispute than possibly anything else.

The land in question is simply part of the problem, as the area is the central, spiritual home of the world's three main religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) and has been a battleground for people for well over a thousand years. The current disputes are far more widely known because of the 24 hour media coverage, but far worse atrocities were committed, by all three sides, during the middle ages. That doesn't at all belittle the horrors going on today, it's just offered as some background information as to why neither the Israelis or the Palestinians will back down voluntarily. Sadly I think that one side or other has to for this to be resolved, which is why I doubt it will happen any time soon.

FWIW, this isn't 'really' a war over religion, it's a war for land and nationalities. Israel, if they give ground, really have nowhere to go. They have had Iraq, Syria, Lebanon etc pushing them for decades.The only place for them to fall back to is into the sea. They are surrounded by nations who want them annihilated, and that has both prompted international assistance and created a 'no-retreat- policy. That's why they protect and fight for every square inch of land they have, and want. They do not fight their neighbours because they are Muslims, they fight them over the land.

Hamas, as a political organisation, has a single aim - occupation of all of Israeli land and the replacement of Israel with Palestine. Now they are the elected leaders of the Palestinian people in the Gaza, that's what they are working towards. If they stop, they will collapse as an organisation and any hopes for a viable, long term Palestinian state will disappear. So they won't stop - not because the Israelis are Jewish, but because they hold the land that Hamas believe is theirs by right.

Neither side will give way voluntarily, and neither side will stop first. Each has everything to lose if they do.

It's a very complex situation born over a millennium ago, and the terrible tragedies we see on both sides now are the latest to suffer. I hope that there's a resolution to it, but I wouldn't expect any movement soon.

 

Agree with that Willy apart from one thing, Hamas is not a political organisation, it is a designated Terroist Group.

 

Designated by whom?

 

Excellent post Willy.