Hash, as you've asked me about my opinion from the direct standpoint of my faith then I will answer from that perspective. I hold that Mohammed is a false prophet. Therefore as Sharia Law is based upon the Koran I could not accept it. The question for me is what I could do about it. I would most certainly join the fight to ensure that it did not come about. Would I resort to violence? I truly cannot answer that question. However I am now of an age where my military effectiveness would be very limited. If i and my fellow Christians could not prevent the adoption of Sharia Law then I would ultimately leave the country. What would you do?
I don't see any conflict between what I have so far said to Milk and my response to your question. I would be sticking to the tenets of my faith as I understand them and they would guide my actions. But I will take the issue a little further with Milk.
Milk, I would refer you to my reply to Hash. Who says that people must "play nicely" when the basis of their faith is under threat? That's why I find your attitude totally condescending.
The whole war was based on a lie this time around http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
You calling someone like me a one dimensional thinker is hilarious, you belligerent old fool. I would suggest that you should 'read, comprehend and digest' your own f**ing posts you plank, before replying with such idiotic nonsense. Your reply to milk was that YOU found it condescending, and your reply was vitriolic so it was obvious to a blind man that in your tiny one dimensional mind, you were defending the rights of people with faith' to seemingly do what they f**ing like. So whilst not discussing your own faith directly, your own faith and belief system lead you do the misguided defence of the general principle.
Something I heard through a freind on the West bank recently was these lads actually died in a car crash. Now,this obviously cannot be verified one way or another. Its the 'word on the street' in the West bank. We'll probably never know.
It suited the Israeli agenda to stir up the tensions and then proceed with their ethnic cleansing/ land grab. Theyve blown the **** out of gaza and once the truce ends tonight the ground forces have been told theyll broaden their assault. In the view of many observers this means go in and arrest/ kill any palestinians remaining.
That is idiotic. I can forward an argument on the political ramifications of Communism or Fascism without having to condone either philosophy. Now if anybody is being vitriolic then it is you. It's not my fault that your ability to even consider a wider view is so limited. I keep saying that I am not defending either sides principles or actions. I am merely trying to forward some rationale as to why the Israelis in particular think and act the way they do. The more you understand of the context the closer that you may get to a resolution. However, the emotional reaction that you have forwarded, littered with absolutes eg Israel is this or that, is only capable of sustaining the conflict at least. For you to believe that your approach is anything but one-dimensional beggers belief. I fully accept that I am older than you and that I may make use of the fact to justify being cantankerous. However, I do have the time and the ability to think and analyse situations. I do live in the real world and bring all those abilities to bear on the formation of my opinions. The fact that those opinions are at variance with popularist opinion should act as a warning that something is not quite right. The fact that you respond the way you do shows me that you appear to be incapable of taking a more comprehensive view. You are the one making the absolute statements, I am stating that other arguments exist that should be considered. So think I'll stick with my "idiotic nonsense" whilst you are led by the nose in a sea of propaganda.
Dave , I aint even arguing with you but id just be curious to know when the IRA were at the height of their mainland bombing campaign did you see the rationale of why they were doing it or were they just scum ? Like the Israelis give their knock knock before blowing the place up , The Republicans phoned warnings ahead. Both Israel and the Ra killed civilians. Im curious is it ok for Israel but not the IRA as it was too close to home. Again im not looking for an argument or to fall out with anyone its the internet ffs, and were all red at the end of the day (even tobes is a closet red)
It's a good question Hash and I'll try and answer honestly. Emotionally my response was "the fenian bastards" - especially when the blew my local up in London!! However, as the heat died away after each atrocity more sense had to be applied and I did start to ask myself "why are they doing this"? Now I can't say that the rational thoughts overcame the emotion. Nor can I say that the rational thought led me to any particular answer. But it did help me to at least be aware that this was not just mindless violence and whilst I may not agree with it and be angry about it, there was some strategic principles being employed by the committed on both sides. Confusing ain't it? We've been over some of this ground before and it is very emotional. But we've remained friends and there's the hope for mankind - we don't have to agree but we can find ways of coexistence. As you say it does help that we are all Reds - except for Tobes which just makes him misguided
its however patently obvious that the ira were less than 1000 men and the 3 and whatever million irish didn't all agree. thus the same can be said of the inhabitants of gaza however in gaza its likely more will die than in the entire 30 years of irish conflict b the end of this. Equally not all Israelis are responsible for what their government is sanctioning but the right wing voices in cabinet are and want more. Accusing All of the crimes of some is harmful. this is an excuse for both sides. However.... I would be demanding if I were a person in power that the isreali general in charge and officers who fired on hospital and on school be put on trial for war crimes immediately. The spineless truds in power i nthis country and in the US who let this go on without being firm that the right to defend line has long since been and active atrocities that are way beyond "collateral damage" are being committed. I would not use the term genocide however. we must retain that term for crimes such as rwanda and so forth.
Cheers for that dave. One of the problems I have with the Israeli-Palestinian thing at the minute is Israel is supposedly a nation and the Palestinians are the savages. Much like Britain and the IRA. Israel is bound by international law whereas Hamas arent because they are the Tehorist (my b3st jewish impersonation) Now when the IRA brought Terror/the war to the streets of Britain the raf didnt do fly bys blowing up schools ,hospitals , catholic churches. The paras went on the streets and interned hundreds and they killed people and kids too but they didnt systematically wipe out entire families or over 600 in a 2 week spell etc. So my point is shouldnt israel really be trying the same thing as britain if it was solely terrorism they were worried about. Its nothing more than a land grab. Back to the troubles as a comparison the IRA killed more people with one bomb than hamas has killed in years of rocket attacks and look at the response of both states. If there are any savages involved it has to be israel.
Someone tell me wtf this is. [video=youtube;aqLHBaIVwJ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqLHBaIVwJ0&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
Youtube, but I can't understand the language obviously, it is claimed to be an Israeli having his kid beat a Palestinian kid, well you can see she is being told to do it, coached as it were but other than that I don't know. You can hear them all laughing.. Makes me want to start punching throats. But I do not know the actual circumstances, sometimes things are not always what they appear to be but at the same time, you have to believe what you see too. This is why when you see someone defending actions like this you want to have a go at them, and they call you antisemitic when really it is moral outrage and frustration and not antisemitism. An ITV report, video, graphic, of the shelling of the UN shelter school, 800 women and kids inside, not a f**ing accident either. http://www.itv.com/news/2014-07-24/itv-news-witnesses-aftermath-of-un-school-attack-in-gaza/ Doctors pulling shrapnel out of a 6 month old's back, no anesthetic either. This has to f**ing stop. Turns out now it is generally recognised Hamas did not kill those 3 teens, but Netanyahooo got his war. So it matters not. The truth about the ceasefire too, Hamas were not even consulted about the first one, yet the media ran with "Hamas refused" it was Egypt and Israel that came up with it, not even talking to Hamas, a f**ing ploy, and nw Israel has rejected this new ceasefire agreement saying it is too kind to Hamas. Lastly, now that 6 Israelis have been found to have killed that Arab kid, burning him to death, shouldn't their homes be demolished and punitive measures be carried out on their families followed by a Palestinian invasion and the killing of 700+ Israelis? No? Didn't think so. There's parity for you. Kill an Israeli, military matter, kill a Palestinian, barely a legal matter and when it is it is a police matter
At this stage a forced solution has to be carried out by the UN, all the talk is sickening, Rwanda lesson not learned, one of many where the UN were f**ing useless because of the influence of some members. Most of the UN cash comes from guess where? The US, the one stalwart behind this that keeps it going and provides the arms. Send in the peacekeepers. Stop all arms going into both places, demolish the settlements and facilitate land swaps for some settlements that do not impede Palestinian land consolidation, fair land swaps. Prevent the IDF going into Palestinian territory, force Israel to give a corridor essential for Palestinian sovereignty. End the blockades and control over the occupied territories. Under those circumstances if either side fired over the heads of peacekeepers then they would lose any support they get. If Hamas fired rockets after such a process they would lose any and all support. If Israel does it then there is no place left to hide with the lies. The UN needs to f**ing do something here.~ The lines have to be redrawn, it will mean Israel will have to give back substantial land but it was never theirs in the first place and international law is on Palestine's side. Also, the Middle East peace envoy, Tony ****ing Blair, he's been quiet through all of this ant he. ****ing scumbag
One wonders where the Palestinian US funded Missile dome is, I mean, Israeli civilians have a right to be protected, of course, can't argue with that at all. So, who will fund the Palestinian civilians defence from aircraft tanks and so on? UK, 8bn on arms licenses to Israel. But lets be honest, both nations thrive on asymmetrical war, the strong against the weak, and of course when the weak resort to the only measures open to them given their inherent lack of a massive military and advanced technology, it is called terrorists. Israel has a right to defend it's self, through funding from the UK France and US amongst others at the cost of their respective tax payers. Palestinians do not have the right, they are terrorists because those same nations that fund Israel's military do not furnish the Palestinians with the means to wage conventional war as well. Pretty much that simple.
Iran could, Saudi could and many of the Gulf States could afford it. Russia has the technology to match the product. But none of these states are prepared to do it - I wonder why?
