Who's excusing who? I said I wouldn't deny anyone the right to defend themselves, but what they are doing is totally disproportionate... You want to discuss the history and origins of this conflict "How fired first?" well, if you want to go back that far.. I guess it all started when foreign forces waged war on them many decades ago, took their land and gave it to Jews that hand never lived in that part of the world for 100s/1000s of years... They've been fighting to get their land back ever since, every other human being would do what they could get reclaim their land, It may be an over simplistic view but that's how I'd feel about it.
I think it's perfectly explainable why each side does what it does. Hamas/Palestine want freedom and independence and know they can't win by any conventional means. Thus they use human shields... put weapons in schools, etc... because in order to have any success they are going to need to influence the outside world and 'trick' Israel to do bad things. Israel has the vastly superior weapons/etc. It would be politically weak to allow Hamas to attack them and not reciprocate by blowing up wherever the leaders are hiding- even if amongst other civilians- or UN institutions. Any leader who tempers their aggression would not be re-elected. The fact that Hamas does not possess the ability to hit Israel directly is immaterial. Rockets all going astray or being shot down. Politics demand that they give retribution by killing a dozen Palestinians for every Israeli that Palestine tries to kill. Both sides are doing what they think they have to. In the process doing things that we as outsiders feel is evil. This type of thing will continue happening as long as we maintain the status quo of Israel dominating and abusing the Palestinian population. It's totally their call- Palestine is ineffectual at changing anything. Israel has all the power/influence- they need to come up with a new strategy for peace to happen. The problem is- they fear that granting any concessions to Palestine would allow Palestine to become stronger and be more of a threat to them.
The Palestinians have killed a total of 28 Israelis with rocket attacks in the space of 13 years. Meanwhile 1 Palestinian child every 3 days has been killed by Israel. Israel doesn't want peace with Palestine it wants to obliterate it.
Goes back way further than that. I mean in modern times. I believe it was egypt? Nearly destroying the land only for israel to be helped and turn tge tide. Since then israel has dominated the area.
To be fair mate, the show the Israeli army is putting on is box office though... just ask the Jews that sat on hilltops, in their comfy deck chairs, popcorn in hand cheering when Gaza was getting blown to bits.. Muslims do that.. its barbaric.. Anyone else, meh!
Not so imo. If the illegal settlements were removed and the borders drawn up and sanctioned, then I have no doubt that the Palestinians would accept that and down their pitiful weaponry. However, that's never going to happen as Israel has continually shown that it has no interest in peace and has been poking the Palestinians with a sharp stick for donkeys years. But when you're comdemned in a UN vote on the issue to the tune of 160 against from a total of 171, but you just plough on regardless due to your bessie being the US, then it's hardly surprising that they act like the fat bully at school.
Pretty well known that the country that has flouted the most UN (joke of an organisation for the most part) is Isreal, they just don't care and never will. Other countries try to comply with regulations and they still get invaded... Iraq for example, never had WMD, if they did, they were given to them by the US and UK to deal with Iran. Weren't involved in 9/11 Yet they get bombed to ****e (Search for Shock and Awe on YouTube). MILLIONS of people killed, Many more Injured, Homes, Business, Infrastructure destroyed, Now tearing itself apart in a Civil war... 100s (maybe 1000s) of Service men from here and US killed.. Why, because we wanted their resources, want to build what we destroyed, oh, and if you don't mind, we'd like you to implement democracy, because it works so well in our countries... democracy is communism lite! Those that have the means thrive, those that don't struggle to survice.. I digress, but it ain't the same rules for all, and never will be!
So the clever thing for the Israelis to do is....bomb the whole ****ing hospital. For a country that believes it is mature and wants a right to exist it sure isn't making it easy for the world to love them. Israel is vastly more wealthy than the Palestinians and their offshoot militia/terrorist groups. They should be taking the higher ground. Israel are pathetic bullies.
Indeed. Here's a list of the UN resolutions that Israel has violated; http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/view-all/ Saddam has a scud that was the equivalent of a pea shooter compared to the US's 21st century hardware and was squashed on a pathetic pretext. Israel continually flouts UN law and the Geneva convention and it's "your mate's the big lad, as you were then" and then the West wonders why Islamic militants are popping up all over the planet as they have a massive sense of injustice
I've never been there but my father and my uncle both served tours in Jerusalem with the U.N. peacekeepers, never actually asked either of them their opinion on it. Must get my uncles viewpoint as he was there in the thick of it. Or I might get out the ouija board and ask daddy lol.
Ok then let's base this on science if you want. As has benn said above take your 'evidence' and test it. Think you'll find that a lot of it is specifically designed to give the opinion that you quote. So no I don't trust it and you have not validated it in any way shape or form. Coming from the US where schools are still arguing about the scientific value of Creationism makes the validity even less credible. After that you go off into a classic atheistic approach. If a person identifies themselves in such a way that their faith describes them as a people, it is reasonable to assume that their faith will have a major influence upon their culture and their view of the world and their role within it. When it comes to Israel then their faith teaches them that the land was given to them by God and that after the exile in Babylon, He guaranteed that they would continue to hold that land as an inalienable right for all time. Now, if that is a major part of their belief, who are you to dictate to them that their faith is wrong merely because you see it another way. Historically, they have only done what other peoples have done when they reverse a major set back. Yet you insist that your 20th/21st Century understanding must take precedence - why? Show me anywhere in the world where this new found reality has actually worked without the need to fall back upon conflict and divisionism - be that political or religious. So the Jews were all wrong because they followed their belief that the land had to be taken back. Well at least they had some basis upon which to support that decision. How do you tell an Aboriginal tribe that their ancestral lands are no longer theirs merely because they have been on walkabout and they have no pieces of paper to prove ownership? Interesting that you end with " The lands are holy to the Jews-but also Xians and Muslims.". If the Jews, as a nation, had not been expelled then the Islam would not have been established in the land. Historically Islam was invented much later than Judaism or even Christianity. The Romans destroyed the majority of Jerusalem and with it the holiest place they had - The Temple. So if your argument that the Palestinians are in fact the remnants of the Jews are you honestly suggesting that they would build the Blue Mosque on top of the remnants of The Temple? If you are then I truly doubt any of your argument. In the whole of this discussion I have tried to avoid commenting on the behaviour of the Jewish state since 1948 until the present day. Some of it I find unacceptable. However, I am not going to stand by silently whilst their opponents totally fail to understand or dismiss the very reasons why Israel as a state and a people think and behave as it does. Israel exists and whilst elements within the Muslim world demand that it shall not then conflict will continue and there will be atrocities on both sides of the conflict.
I was born in England, raised primarily in England and consider myself English. I do not believe in Creationism- never have. I have a science degree. I read a lot of science magazines and articles on a daily basis. I'm not some fundie-xian whack job. I can say with no 100% certainty that any belief is right or wrong. However, there have been hundreds of religions and religious divisions over mans existence- and for one group to excuse abusing another group because their religion says it's OK is wrong. I fully support people in a religion to believe whatever they want- and live their lives however they want as long as they don't create victims in the process. If you are advocating that the lands belong to the Jews because that is what their religion dictates- then you are advocating it is OK for KKK people to kill blacks (they have bible passages they follow to justify that). It's OK for many followers of the Nazis to persecute Jews in the first place (many of them used religion as an excuse). It's OK for the Muslims to try and wipe out the Jews (many base that on religion). Human sacrifice is justified (ancient religions it was required). Female genital mutilation is OK (again, it follows some peoples beliefs). In my view Israel has no right to the land just because the bible says so. That's one of many religions. Follow any religious practice they want that doesn't produce victims- but they have no right to violate other people "because the bible says so". And yes, Judaism does predate Xianity and Islam... but it all predates the lifespan of anyone alive today- and as I said- unless you think we should all be hung for murders our ancestors committed- you can't say there is some ancestry sin committed that the Jews are being recompensated for. No one is responsible for what their grandparents and earlier did before they were even born.
The issue that the Arab world has with Israel is largely due to the expansionism i.e. the illegal settlements that the UN have repeatedly stated they should leave. The idea spun by the US lead West that Israel is some poor persecuted minnow surrounded by aggressive Arab states, is bunkum. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/a-good-jew-hates-arabs-1.459832#!
Take away any Nations military power and they'd be vunerable to invasion, that's sort of why it exists. But meanwhile back in the real World, Israel remains the 11th most powerful military power on the planet.
11th most powerful in the most volatile place on earth tbf. I dont agree with how the IDF conducts itself but I see why they are so brutal and far to excessive. ideally both sides would realise they are going nowhere and achieving nothing. wont happen.
