Gylfi having a medical

There are plenty of Spurs fans gutted to see Siggy leave. They'll be very sceptical about Ben as he's unproven at the top end of the PL where every mistake is magnified, but quite excited to have Vorm as really good backup to Lloris.

This is taking up too much of my time! Logging off. Have a good evening all.

 

Thank-you for taking out the "your attitude is horrific" comment.
I am a fan who hopes for the best season possible for Swansea City, I just disagree that all is rosy and I certainly disagree that we have had the best of this deal.

You misrepresent me. I have said on this thread and multiple threads that I rate Siggy and wanted him to sign..this is a view of mine which is long standing.
So as you can see, I have never thought or posted that because Siggy couldn't holld down a starting berth in the Spurs first team regularly that made him "useless".

What I am saying is that it is an indicator of his value to Spurs. If they wanted him we nor Palace would have had a chance of signing him. That's just a fact I'm afraid.


Regarding your other point.
Most young players need the stars to align to get their break (unless your Messi)...whether they take that chance or trusted/backed when things don't go like a dream depends on the player's ability and the manager's ability to coax it out.

Laudrup seems to have made a habit of being "dumb lucky" let's hope Monk can emulate him.

 

That will not be difficult for Monk!.....................

 

Well I believe it is you who are incorrect and I'll tell you why.

The premium on home-grown players is real.
Why? Because every Prem squad is required to have 8 home-grown players in the squad.
Lesser Prem teams can get away with filling these spots with players who have the potential to be good enough at Prem level.
The value of home-grown players who can cut it in the Prem is raised significantly.
The top clubs who challenge on all fronts and are competing for the pot of gold that is the Champions League cannot risk having squad members who can't cut it. They need home-grown players who make a real contribution...this is why these players change hands for big money.

Your assertion that it is only an "English" premium doesn't hold.
Scottish and Irish players don't have a home-grown premium because they don't count as home-grown.
Only players affiliated to the English or Welsh F.A. for 3 years under the age of 21 count as home-grown.
As most Scottish players come through at Scottish clubs most of them don't count.
Many Irish come through at their own clubs too...of those who move to an English club as a teenager, nearly all of them aren't good enough to hold down a place at a top club.

The Welsh players all count but, again, very few are good enough to command a place at a top club so we don't see much of a premium.
E.g. Of this generation the players good enough are Bale, Ramsey, Allen, possibly Ash and now Ben.

Bale - is that good that home-grown premium doesn't apply
Ramsey - was nicked of Cardiff after 1 season in the Championship as a teenager. Many thought it a good price for Cardiff at the time. How wrong they were.
Allen - his value was inflated because of his home-grown status.
Ash - Last summer the figures being talked about were £10m+ (despite the fact he would be 29 at the start of last season
Ben - Spurs wanted him as their 1st choice left-back. He was only 21. We swapped him for a player worth £8m.


Re:
"Ben is still a raw talent. He's not the finished article, and Spurs could make do with Rose and Naughton if they really had to, they aren't terrible players. Ben is nothing more than solid. He's athletic, is reasonably quick, reads the game well, but his crossing is still poor on the run and he's got no 'special' feature like a venomous shot, great aerial presence, or lightning speed."

That is just your opinion and that is irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevant is that a top 6 club wanted him as their first choice left-back...therefore they should have been made to pay the going rate.
In such a situation somebody like Laudrup would have brought in an alternative to Siggy and let them sweat until they coughed up.
Monk couldn't do that.

"You seem to think that if you aren't brilliant, you're awful." - again, a misrepresentation.
"You need to calm down and start seeing sense. You're wound up and letting it affect your judgement" - I feel perfectly calm and rational thanks.
"We could have started a bidding war, but it may have taken an extra 2-4 weeks to get the deal done. Not good preparation for either club I'd hope you'd agree." - I would agree that time was getting on for us and things were getting desperate. This is Monk's fault. He could have managed Michu better or if that wasn't possible he could have lined up a few alternatives and got the deal done.

Conversation with Spurs would have gone something like this....
"well I understand you think Siggy is worth £10-12m and Ben is overpriced at £15m but that's the way we see it. Pay us £15m for Ben and let us have Siggy for £8m and we can do a deal. You've got until Friday to get back to me or the deal is off and I'll sign ??????????? instead....what's that you say? Ben won't be happy? Ben Davies is a local boy on a long contract and we have an alternative left-back if things get on top of him thanks. Pleasure doing business with you Mr. Levy"


I should add....It's a pleasure to have a proper debate

 

To prove Terror's and my point that Ben should have been worth more than Siggy no matter what (seeing as some seem to still be trying to justify an equal value)

Ben Davies - interest and bids incoming from Tottenham and Liverpool
Gylfi Sigurdsson - interest and bids incoming from Swansea and Palace

I rest my case.

 

Same logic can be applied to Siggy in that two clubs were chasing him.

The sensible thing to do was to negotiate a deal where Ben leaves and we get Gylfi. Otherwise we could have ended up with Ben and Vorm going and no Gylfi. I'd also bet that some posters would then be pissed off about that.

As for equal value, Ben is a defender, Gylfi an attacking midfielder. Attacking midfielders are normally more expensive. Of the two, Gylfi will have a bigger influence on us this season than Ben would have.

 

All fees are undisclosed... Nobody knows what any of the players cost.

Earlier today we had the likes of BBC and Sky editing their stories regarding Rodriguez to Madrid several times because the fee was undisclosed. First it was £52M, then they changed it to £62M... and then both clubs decided to disclose the figure... £71M.

These figures we hear for Ben, Vorm and Siggy are utter tripe made up by so called trusted outlets that were a whopping £20M out of the biggest and most widely scrutinised transfer of summer 2014!

 

I don't know if the point avoided you, but there is a huge difference in the two teams that wanted Siggy lol.

As for your other point about AM's being worth more, I don't buy it. Good full backs are now an important part of a team. Its not like it used to be, look at some of the best players to play in the prem, Evra, Cole, Bale, Baines, Johnson, Shaw (granted he has a long way to go) full backs are now very important players to a team, they are as attack minded as midfielders on times, sometimes even more. So don't buy that attacking midfielders are worth more.

I mean if you look abroad to Spain, Barca use Dani Alves, Real have Marcelo, both are very important players in those teams, they are not just defenders, they offer a heck of a lot going forward too, hence why they are IMO much more valuable than an AM.

Good attacking full backs are few and far between, which is why Davies should always have been worth more than Siggy. Its about supply and demand, and Davies type player is in much more demand right now than a Siggy type player.

 

What happens if Siggy fails his medical , are all other deals off?

 

Roof that is an interesting point but surely that would have been sorted before Spurs anounced it. Maybe if we had any sense we would fail him and get the money we should have had in the first place.

 

Ya mean like how Ki was sorted out before being loaned .

 

But what would you rather, sell Ben for £15 million and lose out on Gylfi, whereas he likely then joins a direct rival in Palace or get Gylfi as part of the deal involving Ben? I know which option is my preferred choice.

 

Terror is building Ben Davies up to something he is not, all this fuse over his valuation is laughable, what was Ben Davies value 18 months ago? we got a great deal for an average LB in my view, lets see how he does at Spurs, because he is far from the finished article, glad we kept Taylor though, more of a true LB in my books!...............

 

I ****in hate this but ... I agree with phil ( heavier sigh )

 

Good job your not in charge of finances, I mean what would you have valued Bale at 18 months before Spurs sold him for obscene amounts of money?

If you own a nice car, you could get £12,000 for it, its a bit of a classic, I mean you only paid £1,000 for it 2 years ago, now its sought after, would you take £10,000? Or would you try and get full value from something you don't have to sell, but someone wants it. With that attitude, don't start in the selling business, you would go bust.

Or better yet, you want his car in return, its only worth £8,000, but you want it regardless, do a straight swap, after all, you did only pay £1,000 for yours 2 years prior. What a bargain lol.

What they were 18 months ago has sweet fa to do with what they are worth to us now.

However I do agree with you on Taylor, I have always preferred him myself, but that still doesn't mean I am happy with what we did with Spurs.

 

Id rather tell Spurs, that we wanted £4m + Siggy. Or £12m for Ben.

Take it or leave it.

Although as things stand, there are rumours it was £10m for Ben, £8m for siggy, which is not too bad, I am more debating with those who think they are worth the same, which they are not.

 

Personally, if that is true then I think we have got the better end of the deal.

 

Me on the other hand thinks that is just right, and I would be happy with that, we get what I thought Ben was worth, and paid what I thought Siggy was worth (posted in a thread before the values were mentioned at around £8m for Siggy) Still far from happy with the rumour of £2.5m for Vorm though.

 

I wish there was no deal with Spurs regarding Siggy , and only cash for Davies and Vorm , Huw got caught up in the smoke and mirrors of multi deals imo

 

Do you not rate Gylfi then?