Have to be carefull if the USA/Britain step in and don't mess with Russia for god's sake. Terrible tragedy though and the daily mirror published a photo on the front page which was shocking, 2 or 3 kids lying there among the wreckage. When will we all get together in peace and good will to mankind ?.
I haven't expressed an opinion, mate. So how I can have an uninformed opinion, as you suggest, is beyond me. If I did state my opinion it would be as we'll informed as it could be. That's why I asked what have you been reading, bar the same news available to the most of us. You clearly lay the blame for all of this on 'the meddling west', which seems to include a concoction of Poland, Uk, Germany, the French and US. I wonder how you can be so certain it's all the wests fault, when Ukraine agreed to accept an offer to join the EU trade pact, like Georgia, rather than Putins Russian trade alliance, before going back on that decision.
We are playing with fire if we even threaten Russia with military action. Putin will go straight to the gas tap and get that turned off, which will cripple large parts of Europe and that's before he even mobilises his troops. If it had been just about any other country in the world we would already be seeing a lot tougher approach. I don't think this will go to war, Cameron and Obama are very wary about Russia and with good reason too.
The old Ukrainian president made a deal with the Eu and then changed his mind due to pressure from Russia. Russia still is owed billions in gas revenues from Ukraine don't forget. Elected government are allowed to change their mind without fear of outside countries fanning the flames of civil war. It's only the EU that want expansion in Europe and they are more left wing then the Russians. Find me one article in any newspaper showing that Putin has some megalomaniac want to take over the world and I'll agree with it! If you look then you will see great similarities between the EU and the old soviet manifesto should you be bothered to read them. Don't forget the EU is run by Baraso a Marxist and Merkel an old East German communist both meddling in Ukraine and are to blame for the whole mess... end of!
It may be too late. The idiots in charge of the EU/US are hell bent on war. 5 billions dollars of hell bent.
You need to stop smoking that **** mate if you believe that. The west is terrified about war in Europe. That's why they pussyfoot around when it comes to dealing with Putin.
If you believe the **** about Putin that the West feeds you then you are more stoned then me! A damned more stupid as well.
Russia is doing in Ukraine exactly what USA has done for years in several central and South American countries that have happened to have a left wing govmt. And the reverse where there was a right wing govmt by assisting in putting down rebels. They did this with impunity as no one over here was bothered. Here they are again sticking their nose into things that don't concern them.
Putin is going to look more to strengthen his position in the Ukraine. He still wants a warm water port to replace Sevastopol as it has two straits for any boats to go through to 'get out' to sea. Normally he'd be looking more to get to the coast by the sub-continent but ISIS have sprung up and that's another barrier in his way. So he's makng sure that he's got something, even if it's seond best. So you can be sure that he won't give up the Ukraine that easily.
He has Sevastopol in the Crimea. It has always been a russian port even when it was part of the Ukraine. One of the reasons the Russians wouldn't give up Ukraine easily was because of this, Ukrainian debt and the amount of ethnic Russians living their. The stupid eu thought Putin would just roll over and now what? Innocents dying for the sake of what?
There will be more than meets the eye to the situation than us plebs at the bottom will ever find out. We'll go and do what we have always done throughout recorded history & kill each other in the elites name, nowt more than pawns in a game of chess, while the cnuts who pull the strings sit back safely somewhere sipping wine & eating steak observing the slaughter. There will be no world peace, ever, just spin to keep the little people in hope. War, how ever terrible it is for the common man, makes certain individuals lots of money and power, takes away peoples will and makes them more easy to control because of the need to depend on the state & the level of fear created. Wouldn't take my eyes off Israel either, that seems to be the prize they all look to ultimately.
Can't see the correlation between Putin and Hitler. Enlighten me? Maybe bbc or cnn has some text on it?
True mate. Sad thing about it all is that blokes like myself & probably most others on here who go out, work for buttons, make some other cnut rich in the process and then spend everything they've earned to pay the bills & put food in the bairns gobs may one day have to go and kill somebody just like ourselves with no other difference other than nationality. One day, you never know, enough people might say **** it & turn around and give "the eye" the ****ing shiner that it deserves.
Correct. However Sevastopol wasn't a permanent arrangement and the fact that it could always revert back to the Ukraine which was a worry. For most of the other Presidents of the Soviet Union this was a problem which could only be solved by getting through Pakistan. Which is why we ended up with The Great Game which started off in Victorian Times; it was all done to stop Russia and then later the USSR from getting to the coast. They tried taking Afghanistan before but cue the locals, the Taliban supported by the CIA and they were up against it. But they always had plans to get through to the coast. They've had their faces bitten off by the Islamic forces in Afghanistan before and he's rightly realised that there's no dealing with this lot and with ISIS effectively creating a wall across the Middle East he simply has to make sure that he's not going to lose the port at Sevastopol. No-one thought that Britain would give up Hong Kong but as the (near useless) Commissioner said at the time, "all they had to do was to turn off the water" and it shows how vulnerable one is if one is living on borrowed land. Also Putin is looking to score a few victories for those at home and, so far, Ukraine is really the only place where he can get them. He's going to deny everything and still not go away until more than just the Eastern tip of the country is under Russian, or the new Soviet, control. As far as I am concerned, as I have seen this sort of thing before, the ethnicity of the people in a location tends to be an excuse and not the real reason. Not many countries try to annex bits of our neighbour's land because some of our chaps live there. That may be what they say, but there will be something else: wealth or strategic reasons but never for the sake of capturing a few more taxpayers. As for the comparison with Hitler, I can only assume that Safc83 is referring to Lebensraum which was Hitler's reaction to the Treaty of Versailles. Again, that was an excuse as Hitler had his eyes on Poland, Bohemia and a number of the Balkan States. But I don't believe that this is so in this case as I strongly believe that Pultin wants a stronger hold in Sevastopol and, there again, I have been known to be wrong before.
As much as you might not believe it, I've never seen the BBC, CNN or any other media source claim that Putin is like Hitler. These are my thoughts. Putin went into Georgia about 5 years ago and came away with some of that and is now doing the same with the Ukraine. He's using the Russian ethnic people as an excuse to do so. Hitler done the same with Czechoslovkia, used the German ethnics as his excuse to do so. He was making Germany bigger and stronger, same as Putin is doing with Russia.
Poland used the fact that the Germans were invading the Czechs to steal land from them. Britain used the ethnic excuse when partitioning Ireland and it's still partitioned. Just because you look after your own doesn't make you Hitler. So then, what happens to the majority Russians in the East of Ukraine? They don't want to be part of the FREE west or do these people not have a right like the Falkland Islanders,Scotland, the Gibraltese or the Catalans of self determination as laid out in a fundamental UN charter? Or, because Putins politics don't suit the US should we just allow the FREE west to run roughshod over these peoples wants and views?
What us 'plebs' are seeing is that ten of our ****ing nationals have been blown out of the sky by Russian separists who have been armed by Putin.
