o/t another Malay plane downed

That's a theory you've compiled there by the way, not a fact.

Well done.

You might as well not bother with me, I'm not interested in gagging peoples views no matter how much I'd disagree with em.

Ciao.

 

I tend to have a wait and see attitude to events where there is no firm evidence..
I have a fear of flying and go through all kinds of torture when I get on a plane to go on my holidays, so my thoughts are for those on board and what they went through in their final minutes of life..

 

as a well educated man in numerous fields, including those mentioned above, i would suggest your off your head. that is all.

seriously, off your head.

 

Probably wouldn't have known a thing.

 

Nah man, it us that are the basket cases. Doh.

 

I would hope that would be the case, but I have my doubts..

 

The decent wouldnt have veen pleasant but then nothing

I wanna do something about him 1 vote, over to you 4, i'm off

 

Just walked in and seen this, and haven't read any of the earlier posts yet.

Wow!

The Middle East **** is now on the back-burner.

The Russians have really ****ed up. There they were quietly going about their business of de-constructing Ukraine and they go and give their stooges ground-to-air missiles.

23 Americans on the flight. Now we'll see whether Obama's got balls or not.

 

And Israel's gone into Gaza.

Jeezuz, I go out for a few beers after work coz some guys getting married and I can't leave reasonable people back in the office to run the world in the meantime.

 

So just what on earth do you want or expect him to do?

 

likewise mate, I'm off too -I don't wish to read any ignorant narrow minded 'opinions' telling what to think or say because it goes against their 'facts' -I have always endeavoured to question what I can plus encourage open debate.

 

To be honest RAW, I'm not sure. But its been quite a long time since an American president had to face up to a Russian-backed slaughter of American civilians.

I'm pretty sure that the lights will be staying on through the night in Washington tonight.

He's got no choice, he has to take a really hard line.

This could end up being the biggest crisis in Europe since the wall went up. I hope not.

 

To be honest, I think that it will be very hard to officially pin this on Russia, and if they did they could only try and use the economic sanction path.With Russia being a nuclear power as well as having formidable non nuclear weaponry, military action would be out of the question..

 

I sincerely hope that you are not contemplating banning the lad for giving his opinion?

 

Minor irritant for me. I ignore the lad. Would advise others to do so too.

 

No ones talking about going nuclear, it's nowhere near that. But you might well see the yanks now supporting Ukraine militarily, equipment-wise, specialists on the ground, etc, to help Ukraine guarantee their sovereignty. That would be a massive signal to Putin that a line's been crossed and he needs to back off.

Furthermore, a 100+ Dutch have just died, so the EU will have to ratchet up economic sanctions against Russia.

This is the best thing to happen to Ukraine in months. Cue the conspiracists.....

 

The Russia/Ukraine situation is pretty complex with the borders being drawn whilst Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. There is most certainly a large section of their population, particularly in the east of the country, who are basically Russian in all but name..

 

That's true. That was their argument for taking the Crimea, protecting their Russian speaking kin, not Russians, Ethnic-Russian Ukrainians. They kicked the locals out and supplanted their own between the 1920s - 1960's.

We did it in Ireland, the Chinese did it in Tibet, Stalin did it in the 30's, the Romans were doing it 2,000 years ago. Hell, the Vikings did it in our neck of the woods after the Romans. C'est la vie.

 

The whole world is ****ed up. The US arming Ukraine will just be Afghanistan 2.0, like when the CIA was arming Bin Laden in the 80's. Nothing good will come from it. The US, the EU, Asia, Australia and the whole world need to stand up to Russia, impose harsh sanctions and hit them where it hurts. We wont win in a ground war with them, they have the numbers, and if China joins them, the size would be insurmountable. Putin knows Obama is weak as piss, and just like Hitler did with Chamberlain back in the 30's with his policy of appeasement, Putin is pushing it to see how far he can push it. The shooting down of Flight MH17 could be a watershed moment in history - like the shooting of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the invasion of Poland, 9/11... - and I'm personally not sure the US can afford another war.

As Einstein once said "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but i know World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones"

Grim times lads, grim times. RIP passengers and crew of MH17

 

Could the EU really back major economic sanctions on the country that controls power throughout the continent? Just how far could Russia go on that side?

This is a question, and I've been trawling Google for anything concrete on that, lots of 'could do' and such, but nothing factual.

Russia hold a lot of the cards in Europe, surely, due to the sheer scale of their dominance in the energy market. They could **** Europe that way, without any war.