Well, the bookies think they know who's going to win. You can now get 5/4 on Carlton house - I wouldn't touch that with monopoly money never mind real stuff. He won't win.
The Irish Derby
- Thread starter King Shergar
- Start date
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Yeah it is a bit over confident - donlt like the horse, think it was way over rated and donlt want him to win so am bascially being a bit bullish about it. If he does win i'll look very stupid but that's an occupational hazzard......
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Filon D'or
Guest
Cyclonic: 
This is all very interesting. I will wait for the day of the race before I choose my hoss. Beforehand, a most careful study of all known form, the probable going, a thorough investigation of the jockey, trainer and connections (any dubious findings on the last two will be taken into consideration), the distance, the track, wind conditions (climate and hoss), the morning dew, everything. Also included will be an in-depth study of the latest copy of FarrierForm, which due to the aforementioned learned remarks, I have recently purchased. There is no way I would want my selection to be suddenly shoeless. The probable winner will be announced on..........Sunday, is it?
Bustino: You are in no way senile.....you can lose most of these jokers, except one or two perhaps, who, at best, don't know more than you anyway
This is all very interesting. I will wait for the day of the race before I choose my hoss. Beforehand, a most careful study of all known form, the probable going, a thorough investigation of the jockey, trainer and connections (any dubious findings on the last two will be taken into consideration), the distance, the track, wind conditions (climate and hoss), the morning dew, everything. Also included will be an in-depth study of the latest copy of FarrierForm, which due to the aforementioned learned remarks, I have recently purchased. There is no way I would want my selection to be suddenly shoeless. The probable winner will be announced on..........Sunday, is it? Bustino: You are in no way senile.....you can lose most of these jokers, except one or two perhaps, who, at best, don't know more than you anyway
At last, a touch of class. Shakespeare would be as proud as punch to quoted on a horse racing blogging site.
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Filon D'or
Guest
Oh heck, can't keep up with all this, now I have to buy GravediggerForm.........................
I'm not convinced Carlton House did not stay. I thought before the race he might not quite be good enough and for me that is how it turned out. It is not as if he came there cruising and then stopped - he plugged on quite well. The lost shoe is a red herring, imo. And I would ignore the point about his breeding - plenty of horses bred for speed have stayed for ever. His Irish Derby odds look prohibitive but it is a poor and very dull renewal - the Epsom Derby all over again without the classy French horse and dodgy camber.
Carlton House stayed alright. He ran on pretty well over 1m 4f and is a Derby third. He stayed fine.
It was a true enough race IMO given the nature of the hold-up winner Pour Moi. He has form on soft ground and SMS would not send him if he feared the ground.
Seville was 2nd in the RP Trophy with cut in the ground and he might be the one to improve, he did not handle Epsom and can get much closer to CH this time.
I thought Native Khan ran a super race on his first try beyond a mile and he will my bet at 10/1.
It was a true enough race IMO given the nature of the hold-up winner Pour Moi. He has form on soft ground and SMS would not send him if he feared the ground.
Seville was 2nd in the RP Trophy with cut in the ground and he might be the one to improve, he did not handle Epsom and can get much closer to CH this time.
I thought Native Khan ran a super race on his first try beyond a mile and he will my bet at 10/1.
Fulkes.....When is the Irish Derby ever an exciting renewal? it always has and always will be a consolation prize for horses beaten at Epsom, every winner of the race in recent years was beaten at Epsom. The Epsom winner rarely contests it, as it's pretty meaningless to a horses stature if they already have the Epsom Derby on there CV, even John Oxx stuck 2 fingers up to the race, and opted for the Eclipse with STS. Had CH been succesful at Epsom I doubt he would even be in the race, afterall SMS didn't run Workforce in Ireland.
The only Trainer who I believe would run an Epsom winner in the race, is AOB, like he did with Galileo and High Chapparel, those 2 must be the last Epsom winners to have run in the Irish Derby. Either way it's still a race I look forward to, it's a good puzzle to solve even if the standard isnt great
The only Trainer who I believe would run an Epsom winner in the race, is AOB, like he did with Galileo and High Chapparel, those 2 must be the last Epsom winners to have run in the Irish Derby. Either way it's still a race I look forward to, it's a good puzzle to solve even if the standard isnt great
Good point Shergar. I know there has been the odd renewal in the past where the English and French Derby winners have clashed in a "decider" (not sure when that last happened) but apart from that it is generally not a great race - the same can sadly be said of most Irish classics.
Great stuff guys,its why this forum is an enjoyable read,with a touch of class from Bustino and good of CYC to tell us that it was from WS.
Just out of interest what do people make of the jockey bookings for AOBs lot, he hasnt got any of the "top jocks" in to ride any of them, and is keeping faith with the younger guys. Of the younger ones I would of imagined Sheamie was number 1 and interestingly he is on Seville. Colm is on Treasure Beach, though maybe he is just keeping the ride because he rode him so well at Epsom.
Does anyone think we can read anything into the jockey booking, as to which runner is the main hope for AOB?
Does anyone think we can read anything into the jockey booking, as to which runner is the main hope for AOB?
Col was always gonna ride Treasure Beach as he rides all his work and gave him a great ride at Epsom.Same story with Joseph.Heff is a joke and i would rather have someone else on Seville but strangely enough he does have a good record in the irish derby for ballydoyle.Lordan is Wachmans stable jockey and as david is Magniers son in law and 99 percent to be trainer at Ballydoyle when Aiden takes out his jumps license again in a few years.
Ryan Moore is retained by stoute and Smullen s retained by Weld who both have runners so they weren't availible,Fallon was never gonna get a ride after what happened at Epsom and murtagh was never gonna get a ride either and he had already agreed to ride native khan.
Ryan Moore is retained by stoute and Smullen s retained by Weld who both have runners so they weren't availible,Fallon was never gonna get a ride after what happened at Epsom and murtagh was never gonna get a ride either and he had already agreed to ride native khan.
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Filon D'or
Guest
Linden: Didn't you do Hamlet? To be honest, neither did I. Seemed to be on Julius Caesar and The Merchant of Venice throughout my entire school "career" LOL! Please don't ask me a question on these two plays from Will S., 'cos I've forgotten..............
Famous.....Not sure what's wrong with Heffernen, I've never been upset by a ride he has given a horse that I've backed. He reminds me of Murtagh a little, not the flashiest but always puts his horse were it should be and gives them every opportunity to win if there good enough. Colm is the same he's a talented jockey aswell. A little harsh on Fallon though, it was hardly his fault that he was banned at Epsom, afterall he broke his bridges with Dunlop to ride for AOB, and it backfired, you would think AOB would offer him some ammunition for the loyalty atleast
No wonder AOB never knows who his best 3yo is, just like last year he gets a 1-2-3 with very little separating the 3 of them. Glad Treasure Beach came out on top, I needed that after I done my bollocks on Midday and my banker at Lingfield yesterday!
Carlton House once again didn't stay, just like I advised he wouldn't, he's from Street Cry and should be running over 8-10 furlongs. Seville redeemed himself, and at one point I was worried Treasure Beach wasn't going to get by him, it was a pretty close battle between the pair, with TB just outstaying him, which was a suprise as on breeding Seville should be the stronger stayer.
I think its fair to say though that the best horse won, he was travelling all over his rivals turning in, and stayed on the strongest. None of his rivals had any excuses, Carlton House had every chance to win if he was good enough, but he wasn't
Carlton House once again didn't stay, just like I advised he wouldn't, he's from Street Cry and should be running over 8-10 furlongs. Seville redeemed himself, and at one point I was worried Treasure Beach wasn't going to get by him, it was a pretty close battle between the pair, with TB just outstaying him, which was a suprise as on breeding Seville should be the stronger stayer.
I think its fair to say though that the best horse won, he was travelling all over his rivals turning in, and stayed on the strongest. None of his rivals had any excuses, Carlton House had every chance to win if he was good enough, but he wasn't