hahaha, not wrong. Posting the 'hidden' view, when we now fine well he's read them. <wavesatsisu> You daft twat
Completely agree. Yewtree has shown what a nonsense this kind of inquiry can result in. The most recent example being Harris last week following hot on the heels of DLT. Now I've no idea whether the man is a nonce or not, but I've read the detail of the charges against him and a review of the supposed 'evidence' and it was shaky to say the least. It became a witch hunt that inquiry and being prosecuted for pinching a waitresses rear in the 70's, was akin to putting the entire era in the dock. An absolute nonsense in my view. Whilst the accusations in this scenario are far more serious in terms of the level of suggested abuse, we should be wary of it going a similar way if the main protagonists are indeed as influential as suggested as you can guarantee they won't be exposed, leaving some scapegoat to take the full wrath no doubt.
Abuse is abuse. Doesnt matter how. Some people take their own lives because their old feller beat ten bells of **** out of them. Others now beat their own kids, lock them away, starve them and destroy them. I see little difference between sadistic violence and sexual abuse. Both are done to break a child and give piwer to the adult. All i am saying is both kinds of abuse were almost acceptable in that society. The music industry will be the big one.
Not wanting to target Suso here, as although we have bumped heads in the past I support his right of freedom of thought and expression. Which is why a pattern of events has disturbed me if only a little. He is well known for sometimes posting views some here consider "outlandish" and it's up to each of us to respond or not as we see fit. Except......he is showing (if only symbolically lol) that he's putting dessenters of his views on ignore lists and the other day he posted one of his usual OT threads then decided he didn't want it debated so asked the mods to close it. Which it was. I understand why the mod (can't remember who sorry) did, to avoid conflict but the unintended consequence, especially if it's repeated is that a poster can post his or her controversial views and with a combination of thread closure or ignore lists suppress any dissenting voices or responses. A poster can rant but not be brought to account by his fellow posters. Ironic considering the particular posters usual content. Just wondered what others thoughts are on that, while it's not breaking site rules, surely it's against the spirit of a forum? Surely in future if a poster starts a thread and then decides he doesn't want "to debate", the thread should be deleted so their view is not the only one displayed? And G I didn't PM this view to a mod because I'm genuinely interested in people's thoughts on this issue of forum etiquette....
At which point did i say slap? Having the **** kicked out of you is in no way a slap. Considering the overly strict, often religious upbringing of the vast majority of children back then, calling it a slap is insulting. The beatings for many were that frequent they just accepted it and even go as far as too say it made them better people. Because violence of any kind always makes you better... More a case of a deep routed fear after so many beatings.
I think the principle of what you're saying there is spot on. Sisu discovered the ignore function a week or so back, however he appeared to miss the point a tad, as he then enjoyed telling people that he'd put them on ignore and then posting copies of their 'hidden' post. It was obvious he was reading them, but he cost himself the right to reply. He's doing the same here, he desperately wants to reply, but can't given he's supposedly got most of us on ignore. It's hilarious tbh and there's defo a major meltdown on the way.
Weirdly Page, I know what he's trying to say. Sexual violence has long been considered by psychologists as an act of domination over a person by another and the act of domination is where the gratification comes from more so than the sexual act itself. So yes in that way a man who beats seven shades out of his wife or kid is getting the same gratification of total control over another human being as if they were sexually assaulting them. In essence you're replacing the fist with a penis as the weapon of choice. The short and long term emotional effects of either version of abuse are the same to the victim. It's the feeling of helplessness that stays with them. Obviously in both types of violence there are under the law grades of offence. Personally I'd cut the hand off a man who beats his wife as quick as that of the man who uses it to molest a child. But that's just me and Ive an instinct of mob pitchfork justice in me which would make me a lousey officer of the law......
Frank, it's the mixture of the two words violence and sexual that truly muddies the water. In today's psycho-babble violence has become a bete-noir. Apparently some social workers believe that any words, posture, action, etc. etc. with which you do not agree can be construed as violence. Whereas the majority of us have a far narrower definition in our minds. I grew up in a time when parents could physically chastise their children. I got a clip off me Ma often, I got belted by me Dad far less frequently (but I deserved it - and I knew it!!). For the vast majority of us this was acceptable. It was within bounds and used as a schooling exercise - we learnt from it. For me far bett to get a clip round the ear - over and done with - than being made to sit on some 'naughty step' (what a waste of time that is!!). But my parents doing exactly what they did then would be considered as gross child abusers - though I'd kick any idiot who called them an abuser from one end of Bold Street to another! Society's whole fixation upon sex has to my mind caused the problems we are now encontering. Yes ****s have always existed. They have always used power, wealth and position to achieve their objectives. They have and do always existed in all strata of society. So let's not think that we are better today because we are exposing past crimes - we are merely missing those crimes that will haunt us in the future. None of us truly want wars but it appears to be a necessary in human society. Equally none of us want our children abused. We may be able to limit both problems but we have to accept that we will never eradicate them.
One of the most laughable statements people come out with is 'my parents hit me and it did me no harm' What are you comparing it with exactly? You dont know what it did but being hit has never had a positive influence on anyone.
I agree Dave, I've disliked the term "sexual" being used in conjunction with any form of assault. It opens a door to equating it with normal sexual relationships (whatever personal rules you apply to those relationships). Better to use terms such as assault of rape. Keep the view clear. I understand where you're coming from, I got physical punishment from parents and school principal that would now be considered unacceptable and I don't think it had a known lasting effect other than an irrational hatred of all bullies. But objectively they were unacceptable in my opinion because in my parents case they had lost their temper and so as the adult lost control of the situation. The Principal in question as I've discussed before was also unacceptable because he enjoyed it, you could see it in his face and how he went about it. It wasn't the cold dispassionate form of correction you describe, it was the gratification of power over the helpless that I described earlier. And that is the driving force behind removing physical violence from children's punishments. If you don't You leave the door open for those who have lost control through emotional immaturity or worse those who enjoy it. They can argue reasonable punishment because the line is grey. Outlawing it altogether makes it black or white. Now different times so I wouldn't wish my parents or principal to be judged by today's standards but that doesn't mean I can say it was "right for the Times" either. Personally I think even dispassionate, physical violence as a punishment is ultimately a failure.....It's a last resort and once used the subject knows that's as bad as it gets. Looking back on my childhood there were teachers I respected more who never lifted their hands and my parents got through to me in more effective ways than with force on other occasions. When they used force I wasn't paying attention to the point behind it I was thinking one day I'll be big enough to smack you right back.
We are all shaped by our own experiences. Violence is always part of our social experience. At Primary/Junior school it was psychological violence (name calling and mocking) at High School physical violence. I know of the two which has had the longest term effect upon my psyche and it certainly wasn't getting canned at school! Luckily the physical violence I encountered was always controlled and as far as I am aware provoked no no unwanted emotions in the perpetrators. Therefore my experiences appears to differ from yours substantially. What I do miss is the close physical contact with young people. Just having young kids climb all over you, trusting you to allow them to do it and to display confidence that they are totally safe with you. Nowaday's I would recoil from such situations purely because they may be misconstrued by others. That's just so sad.
Frank, UIR has been on my list a while, Dave a few days, because he throws abuse or keeps ranting about me being an inane rambler or that "it's crap". I tried to work that out but he's a serial offender. So you've got it pretty much arse about face, given his usual, I opted out of arguing with him, I am not great at reading his less than helpful posts aimed at me and just ignoring them, I also don't go seek him out and give him stick. if he was on tpoic this time, I didn't read it because.. he's on my ignore list wtf do you want like You gonna start talking about my "political leanings again"? or other such compete f**king garbage, you can be a pretentious f**ker I'll say that. Now you are presuming to know why I put Dave on the list, and all of it came from your f**king imagination, none of it from reality The irony, I block Dave for having a go at me, not the subject, and here you are with a tiresome tome about me, f**k off mate.
There are slaps and then there is child abuse. Slaps are 100% counter productive and the more one uses that punishment the less effect it has. I got a few slaps and it did me no harm, it was a different time though, everyone got slaps, I don't slap the kids, never have mind you not slapping them doesn't make them any more forthcoming with their antics I can tell you that Slaps are nothing like child molesting often some parents lose the cool and do it, Molesters are all evil f**kers that plan out their **** and prey on kids.
Again we agree Dave. It's ultimately why I decided against being a PS teacher. I genuinely loved my work experience with the Reception to P3 age but terrified of the possible accusations a job like that would have. Anorher Recent example: When I was in Montenegro a week back it was by kotor bay, every day I walked down to old town and all the Russian and Montenegran families out, adults in the gardens with kids from 0 to teens out playing in the water on the edge of the bay which was across a road from the apartments. kids up to approx 11 naked as a Jay bird. As I walked past I felt distinctly uncomfortable being that close to all these kids. Closer proximity than the parents and dispaired when I realised that this what my countrys culture had done to me. They were all relaxed and completely comfortable that male strangers were walking past their naked kids.......it was me that had the issue of how I might be perceived. We'd have had those kids all in armbands in a fenced off area, with adults trained in CPR, police checked and constant depth and water quality testing....
This ****? It has been made clear that the threads are less welcome than a fart in a lift in July, and I had an issue with a mod going a bit overboard IMO on me personally so I said f**k it, delete them, again, this is portrayed by you to fit nicely into your Sisu starts threads and then throws his dummy out when people don't agree with him That's bollocks. I can debate a subject, without throwing my dummy out of the pram or making big long winded posts about the person who created the thread. Also, we didn't butt heads I pointed out a fact and you didn't f**king like it and attacked me personally with your reference to my "political leanings" Irony, the very thing you are now accusing me of. Disagree with someone, attack them personally, the cornerstone of a failed argument
[QUOTE=Sisu:6732745 Nope, the opposite mate, I'm saying you've the right to whatever "leanings" you like, and to post them here. What I and everyone else should have is the right to is an opportunity to respond or dismiss you. You're putting it out here, nobody asked you to. You're grasp on irony is tenuous since you explain you blocked Dave because he called you names or said you talk **** and then you do the same to me when I deliberately stayed clear of the details of your posts and commented on why your tactics concerned me. So be it. I was concerned and you've confirmed it yet again that what you want is a soap box to vent your views (whatever I think of them personally is irrelevant here) but you are not adult enough to take the public criticism for holding those views or have them disagreed with or yes even laughed at and dismissed. You have used every tactic at your disposal to avoid rebuttal from blocking to wanting one post threads by yours truly. In short and this may be pretentious you write with the fervour of an immature teenager who has recently been exposed to a lot of new ideas which you see as absolute truths and are horrified that others dont share your indignant righteousness. Well tough that's the real world. If you don't like it go find an A level politics forum, they'll have that shiny eyed enthusiasm...except some of them might disagree with you too. Of course you can take the chicken way out and just block me....or ask for your thread to be closed once you've had another righteous vent?
