Can't find a thread for this, so I thought I'd start one. Tempting, I suppose, to just call the thread 'Kingman' and be done with it, especially as some rain has recently fallen at the Curragh. Will it be a procession for the Gosden trained colt whose imperious victory in the Greenham inspired, for a moment at least, memories of Frankel? Or, having come up short in one Guineas, will the son of Invincible Spirit disappoint in another? At 8/11 he's plenty short enough as he is. Dermot Weld's Mustajeeb took off and flew home in the Gp 3 Amethyst, a race previously farmed by Famous Name. Visually impressive, but Classic winning form? On the face of it probably not, but in any case he'll need to have improved past last season's Coventry and Dewhurst winner War Command, who finished 3 lengths in front of him in the Gp2 Futurity Stakes at the Curragh last August. The latter looks like spearheading the Coolmore challenge, but he'll need to put a disappointing run at Newmarket behind him where, having been the subject of some e/w support, he faded tamely after entering the dip. Perhaps he needed the run. Ahead of him in 4th that day, having previously won the Free Handicap to earn his chance at a Classic or two, was the Hannon trained Shifting Power, who has been supplemented for this. It's hard to imagine the Hannons sending one across the Irish sea just for the Guiness, though I don't know what sort of record the stable has in Pattern races in Ireland. He stayed on well at Newmarket having been outpaced at one point, and you'd have to think they'll be stepping up in trip after Saturday, whatever the result. Assuming he's recovered from his Newmarket exertions, on all known form you'd expect short priced Kingman to confirm the impression he made at Newbury in April, advertise the strength of the English Guineas form, and pay a massive complement to current short priced Derby favourite Australia. Or will there be a twist in the plot such as that which saw a 40/1 shot split the ,market leaders on the Rowley Mile?
Its looking like its going to be soft ground and I would forget about War Command if thats the case, I think Kingman is a bit better than we seen at Newmarket the way the race panned out and he really ought to be snaffing this up.
No real interest in this race will probably be an easy one for Kingman however that sort of price holds no interest for me so I'm chucking my darts at two O'Brien donkeys; Johann Strauss 20/1 & Michaelmas 33/1
It was visually impressive; however, I am not sure that it was that much better than his win in the Greenham. Watching the race, I was telling Doyle not to go too soon, as I do not think that being in front so long at Newmarket helped his cause. If he is going to go unbeaten the rest of the season, he will have to hope that it is a wet summer or that the tracks keep turning the taps on to make “good” ground. Stating that, there was a good diatribe by Richard Hughes in his Saturday column in the Racing Post on that subject.
Don't think he's ground dependent at all. Ran well at Newmarket on good to firm, sluiced up at the Curragh on soft.
Kingman is looking a very good horse but I'd be slightly wary of him on fast ground. Something affected him at Newmarket and I'd say it was the ground.
I was very impressed with the manner in which he did it on Saturday but it was not really a proven strong field. Shifting power is clearly Hannon's third string and only he would know what the other two would likely do to it. If Kingman can put in a performance like that at Royal Ascot then we will know we have a serious horse again this year. However, in my view one important piece of the puzzle was answered as we could have wondered if he truly stayed a mile after being so impressive at Newbury over 7f, but having a reversal of form with the winner over a mile at Newmarket, The Irish 2000 guineas proves that without a shadow of a doubt that Kingman stays a mile easily and so distance is no longer the issue. It could still be ground or class, but he did not get beat at Newmarket due to distance.
Won as an odds on shot should. The round mile reduced the emphasis on stamina but apart from Ascot in October he will be bending at that trip so no worries re stamina..if one assumes the SJP and Sussex are next up. The fact is he was beaten fair and square in the real 2000 guineas and that will always be on his CV. Still all to prove and live up to JG's hype.
I agree Dex, he needs reverse form impressively with his Newmarket conqueror to justify the hype. He does look open to doing so at least and so could still be a little special. I take the point about the curragh being an easier mile than Newmarket but the soft ground meant that any horse that did not truly stay a mile would not have come home in the manner he did. My view at this stage is that Kingman will end up a very decent miler and perhaps the champion miler this season but fail to be a great. I do like this time of year however as the potential champions start to emerge as you are always hoping one will prove brilliant. We have Australia at the weekend to look forward to, could be something, could be nothing, but that's what makes this time of year.
Kingman is no Frankel, but who is, looks well up to Canford Cliffs level, top class miler and we all know hes going to smash the Hannon horse AGAIN at Ascot. Remember he made a Guineas winner look like a selling plater at Newbury I think we will be looking back and wondering how on earth he got beat in the Guineas, if it was a proper race and not split across the track, I think Doyle would have produced him to win. At the time when I seen Doyle moving over 2f out I was worried because I expected the horse to come there on the snaff well inside the 2, but he still went clear and I thought I was up for my money so I think Doyle was worried about the other side and just went a bit soon. This horse can take you so far into a race on the bridle and then has that instant gear change of a top miler, you just have to produce him inside the 2 and say go at the pole and there isnt a miler in training who will resist that 200m burst he has, I dont think Doyle will make the mistake again.
Agree with a lot of that Blue and Eddie...after all Kris was beaten in the guineas. He is a cracking horse but unfortunately we tend to buy into the hype..at a subconscious or a more cognisant level. Slow ground can mean a slow pace and the race was slower than the 1m h'cap that closed the card,leading me to think his stamina is still an issue..albeit a minor one..nothing worse than owning a 7f superstar! Anyone think the Ballydoyle runners are still very in and out?.I do. Interesting AO'B refers to all these beasts that were coughing pre and post race in the Spring..nothing was ever mentioned to the media...only how great they all were. Two nice performances today from Marvellous and Adelaide..very nice..that filly looks really good after passing the whole field on only her third start on that ground...really,really good. Australia 4/6?...FO!!!!!!!
No question that Kingman is no Frankel – he was the horse of a generation. As a matter of opinion, I think that Kingman lost at Newmarket because Doyle was forced to go for home too early. But that is racing. It panned out wrong on the day.
As an aside,I played golf in Omagh yesterday with a former AZ colleague PM,who informs me that his owner partner LO'K has been offered big bucks for Midterm Break,who won Class 2 at Beverley on Saturday,from Qatar...no surprise there...he tipped it up to me and we got a call on the par 5 16th to say he had romped home..not a washer on unfortunately. They still have a lot of faith in Robot Boy,as has David Barron who couldn't believe he was beaten LTO! Having said that these guys just sold Pearl Ice for £20,000 after paying over £90,000 for him two years ago. Not quite as bad as the Green Monkey but....
Interesting point Dex about the time today, it might be that 7f is his optimum as the Greenham was electric, but I do think its just about timing his run right over the mile. I think he could win a July Cup and having that speed and just about staying a mile is a deadly combination. Kingman vs Toronado in the Sussex could potentially be the race of the season, clash of the generations with Toronado proven suited to the track, my money would be on Kingman without hesitation. Kingman and Treve 4/1 the double at Ascot, its not often you get free money at 4/1
