European Elections

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Hamps Yorkie Lancs said:
Of course it's not defamation Even if I had said it without any basis whatsoever. Even though I don't agree with most of what Thai has to say on such issues some respect is due for his handling of my remark.

It was only relevant because there will always be a tiny core of people who divide people into 'them' and 'us' but when it creeps into wider society, which in many ways is undoing the progress of the last 30-40 years, and when the major parties start to have their policies influenced to jump on the bandwagon and claw votes, that's when this UKIP thing starts to get dangerous.
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okay, you have a fear that UKIP are either dangerous as it stands today, or will be in future. I would like to know which it is.

As of today, I see them as being a viable alternative to the major parties that have created a certain level of unrest among the population and now appear to unwilling or powerless to do anything about it, as do an increasing number of people across the UK, which is mainly of the over 50's, which of course includes the all important grey vote. If they do go too far to the right, I am pretty sure their support will dwindle, as is the case for the BNP.
 
Thai everything you have said on this thread I agree with you on 100% but I'm afraid you're wasting your time on Hampy! <ok> He's probably dusting down his bust of Lenin as we speak!
 
You and KIO are both decent blokes and I would be more than happy to have a few beers with you in a pub and we would have a good night! Shame you both support that pile of 5hite though! <laugh> <ok>
 
johnnywarksmoustache said:
You and KIO are both decent blokes and I would be more than happy to have a few beers with you in a pub and we would have a good night! Shame you both support that pile of 5hite though!
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<laugh>

Thanks to the UK being royally screwed over, the chances of me returning are slim so I will apologise now for not meeting up for a pint or ten - sorry mate.
 
johnnywarksmoustache said:
You and KIO are both decent blokes and I would be more than happy to have a few beers with you in a pub and we would have a good night! Shame you both support that pile of 5hite though! <laugh> <ok>
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May take you up on that offer Warky if my daughter gets into Cambridge next year as I will no doubt be paying several visits to the City <ok>
 
ThaiCanary said:
okay, you have a fear that UKIP are either dangerous as it stands today, or will be in future. I would like to know which it is.

As of today, I see them as being a viable alternative to the major parties that have created a certain level of unrest among the population and now appear to unwilling or powerless to do anything about it, as do an increasing number of people across the UK, which is mainly of the over 50's, which of course includes the all important grey vote. If they do go too far to the right, I am pretty sure their support will dwindle, as is the case for the BNP.
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NOW: Two immediate impacts - Everyone knows (Farage and his men freely admit it) that that there is no real handle on who is representing UKIP - they have grown very quickly so it's not surprising, they have got the numbers in to gather a national presence very quickly. This means at council level you have unscrupulous and I'm sure in some cases indisputably racist UKIP councilors voting on decisions that affect the local level. In Europe, UKIP and BNP MEPs link up with lots of other right wing parties and vote alongside for example, the French national front. Potentially more importantly, the policies and the agenda of all the main parties are and will progressively shift.

IN THE FUTURE: There is the potential that as it becomes progressively more acceptable to express far right views you end up with violence, a break down of basic human rights and justice. I won't talk about anything too apocalyptic because I don't think there will be enough people who have forgotten the lessons of the first half of the last century. But people do take the peace and relative wealth we have in the UK for granted. With what is happening with Russia and the Ukraine, you get the feeling that if Britain / England were to leave the EU we're on a slippery slope toward a war unfolding much closer to home.
 
Hamps Yorkie Lancs said:
NOW: Two immediate impacts - Everyone knows (Farage and his men freely admit it) that that there is no real handle on who is representing UKIP - they have grown very quickly so it's not surprising, they have got the numbers in to gather a national presence very quickly. This means at council level you have unscrupulous and I'm sure in some cases indisputably racist UKIP councilors voting on decisions that affect the local level. In Europe, UKIP and BNP MEPs link up with lots of other right wing parties and vote alongside for example, the French national front. Potentially more importantly, the policies and the agenda of all the main parties are and will progressively shift.
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It was the 'now' angle I was hoping to see a response and I kind of 2nd guessed at least part of it - the last bit that I highlighted.

Is that not how modern day politics works? Labour moved from the left to centre to become more 'likable' to the majority, in order to win sufficient votes to gain overall power. They became more like the Tories under the Blair years than any other period I can remember. It's the nature of the beast of the modern day, and more importantly the craving for outright parliamentary power is too much for them to do nothing else. All of the parties to and fro to accrue votes, and the only way to do that is to respond to the people.

If UKIP highlight and stand to correct what are considered the 'main issues' of the people of the UK, and the others have to shift more than a comfortable distance on their sliding scale to align themselves to addressing those issues, then that surely serves to highlight where they have gone so badly wrong in previous governments.
 
Exactly thai ( ps just back the land of smiles after 8 months there )

The tory's have already changed their viewpoint from labeling them racist scum to saying people " have a right to vote for ' even ' them " thanks for that Mr Osbourne you nob!

Whether UKIP are a flash in the pan remains to be seen - but what's been clearly highlighted to the major three parties are people are very unhappy with things.

In all honesty, if the main three ( sorry two, lib dems are finished ) can start to correct issues over the next five years, then UKIP votes will dwindle. However, if they don't then I think it's fair to say UKIP will not only win the European election again in five years time, in six years time I would say they will get a good amount of seats in the that national election.

Over to you Labour and Tories........... you have been warned.
 
ThaiCanary said:
Shall we just abolish all governments in all countries then? Open all the borders etc? What a crazy thing to say.
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No, lets just close every single border, administrative areas, counties, nations, states, countries - the lot. Nobody from Suffolk can come to work in Flintshire unless they show relevant skills in their desired job and in Welsh.

Sarcasm aside, I genuinely dont see what the problem is with open borders [with safe, stable, countries]. As far as I can tell free movement in the European Union was never a major issue until it expanded eastwards.

The way I see it pointing the finger at immigration is a smokescreen for problems bankers caused.

As I mentioned before, I voted Green. They came 4th in all my policy matching quiz things but I dont like Miliband or Cameron, cant trust Clegg, Greens are the next one along.

The greens also support a referendum on Europe, but would campaign to stay in.
 
KIO said:
May take you up on that offer Warky if my daughter gets into Cambridge next year as I will no doubt be paying several visits to the City <ok>
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Wow mate that will be seriously impressive and you must be so proud of her. I will be delighted to give you a tour of some of our finest hostelries! <cheers>
 
Sadly, the issue with open borders is people can arrive on mass. It's quite uncontrollable. While this is a two way street, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think Romania and Bulgaria are all of a sudden going to see a high percentage rise in the amount of English people arriving in their land?

Another thing that makes me laugh no end, is it appears only certain countries asylum seekers wish to move to. Why don't they move to Bolivia, Laos, or Belarus for example? I can only sympathise with people who feel it's completely unsafe to live in their country that they wish to move abroad. What a horrible position to be put in frankly. I don't know what countries in Europe take what %%%. If anyone has any data I'd love to see this. It really does feel at least ( partially thanks to the media ) that we in England seem to take many more than others countries.

I'm all up for a multicultural society, what I'm not up for is England getting taken for an absolute ride as has been happening the past 15 years since Labour took power.

I think the rapid change and issues caused by a minority has just seen the immigration issue skyrocket and become a major vote puller. Lets not forget the United Kingdom is a very small country, so such changes are going to become obvious especially in certain parts of the country

Also, for the record I'm not defending a lot of the absolute waste of space idiots we already have of our own. They are also a major major issue. Second or even third generations of certain families have never worked, nor have they any interest in work yet lead very fine lifestyles.

Final point for me today, is I'm delighted most of you fellow townies have voted. That's brilliant! 36% turnout isn't - a lot of my friends surprisingly voted too.
 
Well thought out response Westy. I think the main point of contention over everything else is - not so much open borders, no-body complains about all the German, French, Spanish, most western European nationalities here - that the borders are opened too early, when the economic divide is still far too steep. That I can agree with.

quickly googled intra - european immigration, what I found was that numbers wise Germany had the most foreign nationals, percentage wise it was Luxembourg (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/sep/07/immigration-europe-foreign-citizens). Britain was fairly high but surely thats to be expected when, despite everything we have one of the better economies in Europe.
 
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