Seeing as your enjoying the debate there Bob, I will keep the thread going, wouldn't want to spoil your involvement.
The best thing to do is to support Quilliam Quilliam is the world’s first counter-extremism think tank set up to address the unique challenges of citizenship, identity, and belonging in a globalised world. Quilliam stands for religious freedom, equality, human rights and democracy. Challenging extremism is the duty of all responsible members of society. Not least because cultural insularity and extremism are products of the failures of wider society to foster a shared sense of belonging and to advance liberal democratic values. With Islamist extremism in particular, we believe a more self-critical approach must be adopted by Muslims. Westophobic ideological influences and social insularity needs to be challenged within Muslim communities by Muslims themselves whilst simultaneously, an active drive towards creating an inclusive civic identity must be pursued by all members of society. Quilliam seeks to challenge what we think, and the way we think. It aims to generate creative, informed and inclusive discussions to counter the ideological underpinnings of terrorism, whilst simultaneously providing evidence-based recommendations to governments for related policy measures. http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/
The difficulty with that is that it comes from the standpoint that the extremists are twisting the Q'Uran. In fact they are interpereting it very little and it's the 'westernisation' of its teachings that they object to. I can see their argument even if I deplore what they do. Taff: "I wonder how this story will unfold when the lady returns to Iran?" http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27472394 I'm so tempted to say I rest my case.
I know some christian men who have similar habits. Black males,regardless of religious beliefs, are brought up to think they are superior to women.
He'll get a life sentence,and the British Govt. will offer to house him in an open prison somewhere nice,near his family.
No doubt in my mind that the Muslim faith is based on Satanic verses, and Salman Rushdie was very true to point this out, I'm sure the British establishment will keep the extremists in check whether Muslim or Christian. Dragonborn or should I say the Knackered one, your ignorance of the subject is staggering regardless of the amount of books you have read. Quoting scripture out of context is proof of nothing but your lack of understanding, one can only feel sorry for one such as you, you are like a ship without a rudder.
Bob pretty much most of what you say here is factual, though I would like to correct one mistake you have made, and that is that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law, that ended with the death of Christ, the old law covenant was replaced by a new covenant set forth in the Christian Greek scriptures. Bob I also agree with you that this forum is not the place to debate Religion or the Bible, but Muslim terrorist I see no problem with...................
Not sure what you are on about Phill and I don't understand the aggression. But if I am so ignorant and badly read on the subject perhaps you can enlighten me. The fact I have read a lot of books and articles on this topic doesn't make me better than anyone else or my opinions have more weight. It just means I like to think I know the subject a bit that's all. But it's clear you're well read too so tell me where I've gone wrong even if you disagree with my opinions. I have posted numerous times on this thread, and everything I have posted is verifiable, including the direct quotes from the Suras and the Bible. If I am wrong then please point this out to me rather than insult. If my ignorance is "staggering" you'll have no difficulty. Strange thing to say really when you actually agree with me when I said extremists on both sides should be kept in check. I'm genuinely interested and am always looking to improve my knowledge. My point on scriptures is that they are cherry picked by both Christians and Muslims alike. They pick out the bits they like but ignore the ones they don't. For example, have you ever heard a vicar recount the story of how Moses told his followers to murder men, women and children but take the untouched virgins for their own pleasure? Thought not. It's a valid point isn't it? Hardly the solid basis of a code by which to live your life.
If muslim terrorists can be debated here,on what is purported to be a football forum,then I can see no reason for not allowing religion,and the bible, the same privilege,or anything else that fires the imagination. You wouldn't have to join in,Dragon.
I meant to include that in my post, Lib. I can understand why people object to this sort of thread on a football forum but it's easy to avoid if you don't want to join in and the right of others who do like to contribute should be respected. Live and let live innit? Seems hypocritical to me to criticise this type of thread then contribute to it. On the religion point I suppose that those who have faith should have confidence in that faith enough to be able to face their beliefs being challenged. It shouldn't be a taboo subject. I'm up for reasoned debate.
I don't contribute to threads that have no appeal/interest for me. The mere mention of religion ,however,is like a red rag to the people who have a religious bent. I think they feel threatened. They certainly get very uptight,very quickly.
Not going to get into this debate but feel compelled to point out that IF Dragon has read 'The Satanic Verses' he hasn't understood it. I would advise everyone to read it for themselves and remember that it is a work of fiction which uses the times, people and stories associated with the birth of Islam as a tool to discuss deeper truths about humanity (principally that truth regarding history, culture and human relations in general is subjective term). He could have used the imagery, characters and hypocrisy inherent in any of the World's religions. He used Islam because of it was the one he knew most about due to his family and specifically his Grandfather's influence.
Topical at the moment is Hamza's conviction . Con Coughlin is the Telegraph's Defence Editor and a world-renowned expert on global security and terrorism issues. He is the author of several critically acclaimed books. Abu Hamza is gone, but Britain remains the world's leading recruiting ground for al-Qaeda By Con Coughlin World Last updated: May 20th, 2014 10 Comments Comment on this article When will we ever learn? While David Cameron and Theresa May rightly rejoice over the conviction in New York yesterday of Abu Hamza on a range of terrorism charges, they still have not come to grips with the fact that London and other parts of the UK remain a major operational base for Islamist terror cells. During the 1990s I wrote a series of articles for The Telegraph pointing out how Britain had become the favoured haunt of leading Islamist terror groups, from as far afield as Saudi Arabia to Algeria. But these warnings went completely unheeded by the security services, who kept insisting that the likes of Abu Hamza posed no threat to Britain or British interests. And yet, more than a decade after the 9/11 attacks, and as the tenth anniversary of our own terrible 7 July attacks on London's transport system approaches, anti-Western Islamist groups continue to flourish in Britain, busily recruiting naive young British Muslims to fight in Syria, and using Britain as a base from which to launch terror attacks against our long-standing allies in the Arab world – countries such as the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Egypt. Last year's murder of British soldier Lee Rigby in south London should have served as a wake up call to our security services that Islamist cells based in Britain are not only concerned with targeting foreign governments. More recently the estimated 450 British jihadists who have travelled to Syria – and in all likelihood been radicalised by al-Qaeda and other related groups – should have got the alarm bells ringing. And yet, just as happened during Abu Hamza's heyday at the Finsburty Park Mosque in North London in the 1990s, I get the sense that British ministers and security officials still do not grasp the enormity of the Islamist terror threat Britain continues to face today. Frankly, the fact that the Americans can bring Abu Hamza to justice, and Britain did nothing even though most of his crimes were committed on British soil, is a damning indictment or our approach to this growing menace.
for some reason, where you have evil people like that who have perpetrated the worst of crimes, some people insist that these people's human rights are followed to the letter, and get hellbent on ensuring that they are treated with the upmost respect. in the mean time, its been what 15 years of the UK having this bastard preach awful things about this country and its people, he never even entered the country legally. he was a criminal throughout his 30 years here, what a waste of space.
Continually controlled by a list of weak Governments who are more concerned about votes ,the blind eye to the ongoing growth of radicalisation and a with the perception that we ( all religions ) are a tolerant and without threat to our security have meant that we're as vulnerable as we ever were to attacks against the state and population .Shameful
Hamza ran rings around successive U.K. governments for many years,very much like Anjem Choudary,and his ilk,are still doing. They are laughing at the very country that has allowed them to prosper. This country is running scared,fearful of the backlash that would ensue if proper,appropriate action, were taken against these people. Shame on those who capitulated so readily to this garbage. We will reap the rewards sometime down the line,when the flags of islam will fly on all buildings,and alcohol,pork,outward shows of affection,etc.,etc.,are banned. Women will all wear tents;men will all sport beards,and the calls to prayer will ring around this once great nation. It won't happen in my lifetime,but IT WILL HAPPEN.
