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Official Not606 Spanish GP Chat and Predictions

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by EternalMSC, Apr 28, 2014.

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Who will win?

Poll closed May 8, 2014.
  1. Rosberg

    3.2%
  2. Hamilton

    77.4%
  3. Alonso

    3.2%
  4. Hulkenberg

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Vettel

    9.7%
  6. Ricciardo

    6.5%
  7. Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Button

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Magnussen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Perez

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. OTHER PLEASE STATE IN BOLD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    We don't want that to happen, otherwise Bonkers Bernie will be back with his barmy medals plan again.
     
    #661
  2. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    That would be much better overall. I'd still like to see something where you can side-by-side the consumption of two battling drivers.
     
    #662
  3. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    #663
  4. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    #664
  5. GramP

    GramP Member

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    Maybe elbando was right, we should have had a separate thread about the fuel issue.

    We seem to be going round the houses a bit. Nobodies fault, it's just the lack of outside credible tech info on the subject.

    The graphic displayed is a percentage but we seem to be confused as to what it is actually a percentage of. I am convinced that it is a percentage of the race fuel limit I.e. 100Kg. Therefore 75% of 100Kg is 75Kg used by that driver irrespective of what is actually in the tank. So we cannot assume that the driver displaying 75% usage has 25Kg left. He may have far less depending on his fuelling strategy. He could have more than 25Kg in the tank but he can't use more than the total for the race of 100Kg so he would be carrying a weight penalty.

    There would be no point in displaying any other calculation than the one I have postulated.

    The previous limit was 130Kg, but not every race required the full fuel limit. Therefore, I think that we can assume that at some races drivers will require less than 100 Kg and reduce the fuel load accordingly.

    If a driver loaded up only 90Kg then a display of 75% would represent 75Kg not 75% of 90.

    Are you with me?
     
    #665
  6. GramP

    GramP Member

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    I have never fallen for the "Hamilton can't manage fuel/tyres" propaganda.

    All racing drivers at all levels of all Motorsports have to be able to manage both, otherwise they would not get very far. Tyres are supposed to wear out. The calls are largely made by the pit wall depending on the race situation and available gaps to be exploited. The driver just has to get on with degradation until there is a favourable opportunity to pit.

    Excessive degradation, relative to other drivers, may be due to a variety of reasons not just the driver being careless. How many times have you heard a driver being told to slow down and leave a gap to save his tyres?

    If Hamilton was a poor tyre manager then he would pit more often and sooner than other drivers with better skills. Does this happen? Or does he pit at similar times to the others? In a 60 lap race you can expect him to pit roughly at lap 20 and lap 40 similar to the others. I see no pattern in his pit strategy to suggest that tyre management is a weakness.

    Of course, another way of approaching the issue is to examine his lap times to see if his times drop off more rapidly than the other drivers.

    I have never been convinced with the view that Button is a better tyre manager. If he is then he is not trying hard enough to win.
     
    #666

  7. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    It definitely makes the most sense. Thanks
     
    #667
  8. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    Maybe it's due to the amount of times Hamilton came over the radio whining about how his new tyres are already off a couple of laps into them, or that he seemed to go off the cliff more than others, he looks better this yearsimply because he has no need to push them trying to overtake anyone, he's always in clean air and Pirelli have made the tyres a hell of a lot harder than they were.
     
    #668
  9. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    He's had Rosberg pushing him hard on two occasions and really had to get the hammer down. The difference is that he has a car that's possibly more forgiving on tyres than in previous years. He was suffering graining during that last race though while complaining of over-steer.

    I'm still not a fan of tyres that go off too easily if following too close to an opponent or if having to push a car to edge of its performance envelope. It's anti-racing to me.
     
    #669
  10. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    I agree totally, it a bit like giving an engineer a metric size spanner set to tighten the imperial bolts, or trying to roll tarmac flat with a steam roller fitted with pneumatic tyres.
     
    #670
  11. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Not sure I agree with that. As Toto says, the start is key in Monaco, so you want both cars getting off the line cleanly. Hamilton says his starts haven't been perfect either (although better), so it's likely a problem inherent in the clutch system that needs ironing out. If they don't know what's causing it, it could well end up happening on Hamilton's car too. Makes sense to get it sorted, whoever's in the car.

    It's no different to testing any other upgrade. For example, a part might make the rear end more planted, which one driver needs more than the other, but it still benefits both of them.
     
    #671
  12. GramP

    GramP Member

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    Good point there dhcanary. Lewis cannot replicate Nico's driving style or reactions so if the problem is technical then it is in Lewis's interests to solve it.
     
    #672
  13. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    A good example of that is the Front wing upon the BS of wing-gate centred, Webber didn't like the new one it didn't suit him, as Brundle commented during practice of that weekend, whereas it suited Vettel.
     
    #673
  14. dhel

    dhel Well-Known Member

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    But what happens if there is a change that helps Rosberg and totally mucks up Hamilton's starts? That would be something eh? Lol I think after Fridays practice they spotted something they thought would improve Hamilton's car and totally mucked that up too...he went from a second factor than everybody including his team mate and having his tyres lasting longer than most to struggling with the car in the race. S they have to find the correct balance.
     
    #674
  15. Astro Canary

    Astro Canary Member

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    This is an article from the BBC, and whilst its talking about Lewis being great blah blah, an interesting point is made at the bottom. Mind games.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/27431133

    There have been a number of instances where Lewis has been trying to play mind games with Nico so far. One was the win in China where Lewis offered Nico to hold his winners trophy (well one hand on it anyway), check podium replays. Now we all know that the winners trophy is a lot bigger (and therefore probably heavier) than 2nd and 3rd place. Here I think this is one occasion where he was playing some mind games. This was "Look at this trophy and how big and heavy it is... its mine. I'm 1st you're not." (sorry if my explanation sounds childish). The seed was sown.

    Now it was widely reported that Nico doesn't like coming 2nd to Lewis, so when he repeated this in the drivers meeting after quali (again quite possibly because it is in his mind already), Lewis again chimes up and says "You've already said that". Again the subliminal message is "you're 2nd to me, (on many occasions)." He is reinforcing that.

    Now there is no evidence so far to suggest these have affected Nico (apart from perhaps messing up 2 flying laps in China during quali by pushing too much? Debatable). But its the long game which will be interesting.

    The last possible mind game I've seen apart from Lewis saying that Nico is faster than him but he still won Bahrain and Spain, is over the radio during Spain saying he is having problems. During which Nico was one lap faster, one lap slower by 0.9 seconds and slower by 0.7? can't remember but the split times were up then... Tenuous whether this is evidence or not because of the delays in radio transmissions given to the broadcasters... But the commenters mentioned that saying ahhh I'm having problems whilst being faster than the 'other driver' could be a game...

    Anyone else know of any evidence of 'mind games'? Monaco is going to be the race where Nico has to win. Its one of 'his' tracks, and here he knows he can beat Lewis. But if Lewis is ahead at some point in the race I can see Nico trying something drastic. If Lewis wins I can already hear him saying "Its nice to beat Nico here because he won here last year... (when I was new to the team?)". The last bit maybe to instil the idea that last year was because he was new (getting up to speed in the team)... Anyway Lets hope Red Bull are closer for a bit of competition!

    Talking of Red Bull, I didn't get to comment on the race (busy week) but just want to say great race by Seb! I thought he'd come 5th or 6th but 4th was a great drive. Interesting to see he has found some time (for whatever reason) and how he compares with Riccardo over the season.
     
    #675
  16. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

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    I have detected a bit of mind games certainly. Hamilton came to Mercedes to win in 2014, and I have never seen him this focused in every department. Nothing is being left to chance. I think it must certainly be in the plan to crush Rosberg. I don't think it's happened yet, but if results continue to be this one-sided the pressure will certainly mount.

    What will be interesting is how it changes things as and when Rosberg gets a win. The psychology could change entirely.
     
    #676
  17. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    There's certainly some minor mind games at play, but I certainly dont think Rosberg is down and out just yet. If Hamilton takes Monaco then it's going to be though for Rosberg to overcome Hamilton as we move towards mid-season. Monaco could be do or die for Rosberg, but if he wins there, it might be just the boost he needs.

    I would be surprised if Hamilton does crush Rosberg mentally. It's not a side of him we've really seen before.
     
    #677
  18. dhel

    dhel Well-Known Member

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    I watched Rosberg after the last defeat and he was biting it in.... I think he is very strong mentally and it seems as though it would take a lot to mentally break him. He seems the type of guy that gets beaten and he goes away and work on his game. He seems a very quiet guy and it's really difficult to read him to tell what he is thinking... Always seems very thoughtful. He seems to keep his feelings inside and I don't think he is the type that you would hear getting very angry on the radio or getting angry on the track. Hamilton is the type who will let it out and that's his way... The only question is...is it better to let it out in the open or to let it fester inside over a period of time?
     
    #678
  19. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    He's showing small sings of being rattled... But he's certainly not crumbling. The points table is close enough for him to still come out on top, but he really needs some good results (wins) to start shifting the pressure back to Hamilton.
     
    #679
  20. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

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    If Rosberg has a failure and a DNF like Hamilton did in Aus then all of a sudden it could be a huge hole for him to climb out of. But of course a failure could afflict either of them.
     
    #680

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