Ukrainian army are shooting civilians in Mariupol. They attack on the day of victory day parade, guaranteed to have plenty of civilians about. http://rt.com/news/157884-shooting-mariupol-eastern-ukraine/ of course Kiev love Nazis and lament Hitlers defeat
'Provocative' Putin visit denounced is the BBC headline today on yet another anti Putin piece, nothing of this mentioned, people are standing in front of tanks in the video footage, in that article above the video shows civilians trying to stop not the army but the national guard, filled with ultra nationalists and nazis. One guy crossing the street gets shot, for nothing. Another civilian lying dead at the side of the road, reporter shot in the gut.
Bravo Peter Hitchens: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...tique-trains-vast-bill-Labour-knows-time.html And he's right about rail privatisation (£40bn siphoned off into private company dividends and directors' bonuses in 18 years), AND re the free market and protectionism in so-called global market, and the race to the bottom for cheap labour and workers' conditions- check out 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism by Ha-Joon Chang). The other two issues are directly related to Ukraine - the US and Europe are gearing themselves to rape that ****ing country of its natural resources in the mode of 'privatisations' and 'modernisation' which will create an uberclass and desperate underclass within a decade, in the time-honoured fashion they've practised for the last forty years. And Peter Hitchens is a Conservative. Why is the ****ing Left not fighting this battle? scared of ****ing focus groups telling them they'd lose votes in Hemel Hempstead and Dorking, that's why, ****ing ****bags.
Hitchens confuses me, he seems to vacillate between sides. He's bang on about Ukraine if only superficially. The 40 people in Odessa were slaughtered by the Nationalists, the Svoboda descended on their camp, so the anti government people fled into the building, got burned out and those that jumped and managed to get out alive were strangled and beaten to death, The police were with those people and they just let them head off to butcher people and did nothing. I did some digging. This is you know proof of US involvement in carrying this out. Some people I won't mention think their phobia is enough evidence to blame Russia for this massacre that us going on, shooting young women while Michelle Obama has the ****ing neck to go on TV about the Nigerian kidnappings while her ****ing husband kills girls with Drones, funds and arms girl murdering rebels in Syria and support Palestinian girls being shot by Israeli soldiers, because they had a backpack on. Larry Diamond, Wisper to a Roar made the "I am Ukrainian" video. http://awhispertoaroar.com/about-the-film/filmmakers/ US National Endowment for regime cha.. I mean Democracy. The same Larry Diamond http://www.ned.org/about/staff On Page 3. National Endowment for DecocracyNED funding, revenue $110 million but.. 109 million comes from the US Federal government. http://www.ned.org/docs/11annual/NED-2011-Annual-Report-Auditors-Report.pdf Also, Patricia Nuland, the one caught discussing who will be in the new Ukrainian government. Well here she is stating openly at a meeting that they have put in 5 billion into Ukrainian democracy movement. Skip to 7 minutes 30 secs of this meeting that was recorded, this was not a MS event. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=U2fYcHLouXY So there you have it. Still a big fat 0 in terms of evidence of Russia actually having any involvement in Eastern Ukraine, I think if they were the Ukrainian army would be getting it's arse kicked. The US directly involved in Ukraine since 91. They built Maidan, using anti Russian sentiment and calling them EuroMaidan is rephrasing the rabid anti Jewish and anti Russian hate. I speak of the many ordinary Ukrainians who have no ****ing idea the US built their movement even though they support it, they were led up the garden path. Tymoshenko and her kind already sold out Ukrainians once to make her fortune. Some people just never learn and believe anything. But you couldn't get these people to fight, they needed Svoboda for that and that is why they are in government. The snipers no doubt came from Svoboda
I think it would be totally naive to think Russia are having no involvement in Eastern Ukraine. I get that you have an anti eu and us agenda but don't let that blind you to the misgivings of other countries. The us or eu beings ****s doesn't stop Russia being ****s. The two are not mutually exclusive.
There was a very good piece done by the New York times, they send Journalists to actually talk to the Anti Government militias. Some are former Russian military, and so there is the possibility mate. Definitely. But also they are actually Ukrainians too, they all had different goals, some wanted independence, some wanted greater autonomy and all wanted an elected government not the gang the US installed. Put it this way, there are probably many former Russian army people in Eastern Ukraine, when Svoboda took power by force, if that is not a call to arms I don't know what is. It's harder to comprehend here where things are completely different socially, but given the historical context and the diametrically opposed ideologies it is not even remotely surprising the East do not recognise this "government" Again, you might say it is this or that to suggest that Russia is not involved, again I ask for even the flimsiest evidence, because we are all waiting for it. I do notice you have not much to say on proven US involvement though, and therefor UK involvement. The BBC has been ignoring the killing by the nationalists, a 20 year old gets shot dead, journalist critically wounded and a bunch of civilians killed as well as the butchery in Odessa, all gone unreported on. It seems you are in line with the media, ignore evidence of the west causing this whole thing and point to the suspicion it is all Russia. BTW by US logic Russia would be right to intervene in Ukraine just as the US thought they were right with Cuba
Edit: btw, be aware that the £40bn figure is just the PROFITS made on the £200bn total public subsidy given to private operators (three times higher than the figure given to BR even accounting for inflation) over 18 years. The same will happen with Post privatisation too, wait and see. I was on nights last week and had Radio 5 Live on, and some journalist arguing these points put them to Edwina Currie. As she was demolished point by point, all she could counter with was that the rail firms pay tax on their profits (yeah, eventually some miniscule amount after their accountants have got to work). Isn't that the same argument that dole-ites say about the beer, ***s and drugs that we subsidise them to buy? ****ing Benefits Street for the Golden Mile are privatisations, but you won't read that in the Mail or the Sun.
I'm of the opinion that no-one has dealt with the situation particularly well and that behind the scenes theres probably a lot more going on than we are able to see.
Privatisation is just simply the corrupt asset stripping of your country! We get to pay taxes for these and when they are sold and privatised we still get to pay the tax. Never mind the extremely dodgy dealing in the sales anyways.QQQangos. Osborne and Royal Mail was a perfect example, it was a reward system for his cronies truth be told.
NATO is the biggest sales rep for the military industrial complex. Every time a new nation joins NATO they are shoehorned into buying billions of hardware from US and UK military manufacturers for the sake of "Interoperability" and also, these nations won't be buying Russian made weapons. NATO is the Lord of War. The global aggressor. Poland was shoehorned into buying 48 f16s from the US, as if they had that kind of cash to throw around given the state of the country. Romania literally sold 5 bases to the US, the US then spent millions upgrading these permanent positions. Ukrainians will not have the privilege of buying US weapons systems. The US is literally printing worthless money and buying their way into countries all over the world while we are told this is all about security. As for Ukraine and the east, currently in Nevada in the US, not that BBC cover it, the people have put a militia together and defied the federal government in an armed standoff forcing the government to back down. US states are looking for independence never mind the Eastern Ukrainian regions. US private contractor Blackwater are in Ukraine now according to German media, those guys massacred many Iraqis.
More on the killing of police and civilians in the East by the fascist Kiev regime. [video=youtube;xidKNUwjMgA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xidKNUwjMgA[/video] When Kiev kill civilians the US release a statement saying they were Pro Russian separatists. Many of those people in eastern Ukraine want to stay in Ukraine but with greater autonomy. The US is painting it black and white.
Gotta love democracy. Greek neo-Nazi party Golden Dawn allowed to participate in EU elections. http://rt.com/news/158368-party-nazi-elections-golden/
One of the people murdered in Odessa was a pregnant woman. Some eye witnesses claim there were over 100 dead and not 40. [video=youtube;H4dJRnI-X8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=H4dJRnI-X8Q[/video] Killing pregnant women. Those svoboda are pretty ****ing ruthless, they strangled her to death. Audio is out there that she's heard screaming just before she was killed. It was a ****ing massacre.
Hmm? Meanwhile in Ukraine, Kiev are using this to attack Eastern Ukraine please log in to view this image [video=youtube;W0P_sv_x4E0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0P_sv_x4E0&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
Odessa. Footage clearly shows Ukrainian police working with Maidan. Maidan actually took the lower floors and killed many people before the place was torched proper. Over 100 dead the real number, a proper ****ing massacre. [video=youtube;EvLukZZoTh8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EvLukZZoTh8[/video]
Possibly lets just say that anything posted in here is infinitely more honest and accurate than anything the BBC is publishing. Why go to BBC.co.Uk for news on Ukraine when you can come right here I didn't start this thread, it was started on the premise that Russia were about to start shooting civilians, I thought it might be better to have the truth about what is going on. EU US IMF and UN backed murder and crimes. I know most people couldn't give a **** more or less, I just feel the need to disperse the lies and completely skewed view of reality concerning what is actually happening in Ukraine. I have noticed some opinions have shifted on this over the course of this thread.. FYI, people read this even if they don't post, as per number of views. #missionaccomplished Is it not obvious? #mycampaignformostannoyingnot606member
Sorry, Sisu, I just thought that was a humerous faux pas. You've got some decent stuff on this thread. Keep it up.
Actually I was thinking like a smoke or a fog, of lies, dispersing it makes it easier to see the truth it covers. But I get your point, I probably should have chosen a better word but my analogy is apt nonetheless. Taking an exact definition without real world application.. read the first quote of my sig.
