An interesting observation that Lewis still seems to use less fuel than anybody, probably because of being in clean air for longer than most people, but that's not what I'm interested in. It seems him using less fuel has this rubber band effect for Rosberg in effect having a "lighter car" as he used more fuel up to that point towards the end so his car would be lighter than Lewis'. So for example if we had 15 laps left, Hamilton would of used 75% of total fuel allocated, but Nico 85% used. So his car in effect would actually be lighter than Lewis' towards the end and that all that clean air actually punished him in the end by having to carry around a weight disadvantage of a possible few tenths a lap against Rosberg etc. So what I'm suggesting is that, was Nico on purpose lingering behind Lewis to burn a certain amount of fuel until towards the end when he will have the options and a lighter car where as Lewis would be on the Prime and in effect have a car a few kg's heavier? It just didn't seem Lewis could burn fuel fast enough to shed all that weight in the closing laps against Rosberg and it almost cost him being in that clean air for so long. 2-3 more laps and Rosberg probably would of got him.
I agree after the bore at the end of last year It seems the Forum has actually grown a bit. We also seem to have a good mix of fans of different drivers which is always good
Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener 1m AMuS exclusive: Measuring Vettels chassis from first 4 races Red Bull found out it was a little distorted http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...el-geloest-das-chassis-war-krumm-8362176.html Translated by somebody. That hurt. Sebastian Vettel came out of the first four races with three qualifying defeats against newcomer Daniel Ricciardo. The Australian was also significantly faster in the Bahrain and China races. So fast that Red Bull asked Vettel to let his team mate past two times. When before the Spanish GP the news came through that Vettel requested a switch back to the old test chassis with the number RB10-01, many thought of it as an act of desperation. A chassis change is for race drivers often the last resort, when they can't figure out what else is wrong. The critics started to second guess Vettel's race craft, and proclaimed his world championship titles as result of his dominant Red Bull car, and even recommended him to see a psychologist. Vettel's opponent is Mercedes (added: not RIC). Vettel, however, seemed not too stumped. He was too relaxed about his defeats, which is unusual for someone who was not born to lose. The dominance of Mercedes is bearable, Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg have the better package at the moment. Against that, no driver can compete. However, when the teammate is regularly faster, it's another issue. Even Vettel is not left unfazed. "Of course I'm gutted if he's places in front of me. But I knew why that was. And I knew how to counter it. But the first goal for us has to be to catch Mercedes. Then I can worry about Daniel. It would be wrong to use all energy to become third instead of fourth." Too many rear end problems. The last part of the Chinese GP confirmed Vettel's suspicions. "The car is not talking to me". However, when Ricciardo took one second per lap out of him, Vettel knew something was wrong. "I didn't forget how to drive. A second was just too much." It couldn't have been just the break by wire issue that surprised the drivers. Theoretically, Ricciardo should have had the same problems. However, there was no plausible reason why the guy with less experience dealt better with the issue. Vettel's Red Bull was remeasured in Milton Keynes, and the chassis was found to be skewed. Therefor the car's setup was also wrong and this produced too much disturbance in the read end during breaking. Problem was in the first part of corners. This was the explanation of why the car was so unpredictable. Vettel lost time in the corners that had strong breaking. "The problem was in the last phase of breaking, where you're already steering into the corner. The backend was uneasy. The trust to break late was missing. Therefor you break earlier and then the line isn't correct anymore because the car is positioned wrongly to the apex. You have to fight more corner than you should have to. Which in turn means you lose a lot of time exiting the corner." If that happens from corner to corner, the tyre degradation increases as well. After the Spanish GP Vettel said: "The chassis change was worth it. I now feel again what the car is doing." The gearbox problem in qualifying prevented a direct duel with Ricciardo. The Australian started on P3 while Vettel started on P15. However, the successful charge from P15 to P4 and the fastest lap proved to Vettel that his instinct/feelings did not betray him: "The big question mark is gone. Considering my pace was decent. I also was within the limit of tyre degradation". Frustration was only there in the beginning of the season. Red Bull advisor Helmut Marko thinks nonetheless that Vettel sometimes overthinks things. He tries to understand technology and use it to his advantage that not even the engineers can explain completely. "Too much overthinking then blocks you", knows Nico Hülkenberg from his own experience. "You have to step back and rely on your instincts in that case." The way Ricciardo probably does it, because in his career, he had never driven as good a car as the Red Bull before: "You can see with how much joy Daniel drives. He's just happy to be sitting in such a good car." The world champion defends himself: "I don't want to understand the code, but I want to know what slows me down". The suspicion, that Vettel was spoiled for four years while his teammate was used to cars that are a handful to drive is not valid for Vettel: "We had phases, in the last four years, where the car wasn't optimal. We've never been as dominant as Mercedes is now." Ricciardo agrees: "You don't become four times world champion by accident. Seb has the ability to adjust to any car." At the beginning of the season Vettel was a bit frustrated. He doesn't like the new cars and engines. They are too silent and too slow: "I don't get goosebumps when driving them." In his subconsciousness this frustration might have lead to losing a little bit of time as well. "I'm over that phase. I know that it is the same for everyone on the grid and there's nothing to change."
Im not not sure the % fuel use is accurate or correct. I'm sure I heard MB say that the % is related to the volume that they are physically allowed to carry. My understanding is that cars will still start with differing fuel loads, so LH may carry 158 and NR may carry 154 at the start meaning that Nico will always seem to have used mired fuel. If someone could clarify this that would be great.
I was about to say the same but opposite I assumed Hamilton is starting with less fuel than Nico (aka better starts) but then has to conserve fuel more than Nico throughout the race. Makes no sense to continually finish with excess fuel in the tank, might as well dump it in the straights as thats not going to hurt the tyres or anything.
DID FERRARI FAVOUR ALONSO OVER RAIKKONEN? STRATEGY ANALYSIS FROM SPANISH GP http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/05/did-ferrari-favour-alonso-over-raikkonen-strategy-analysis-from-spanish-gp/
The cars can be loaded with as much fuel as they like. The limit is on the usage from lights to flag of 100kg. The cars still need to use fuel to get to the grid, parade lap, slow down and sample. The idea of each driver is to start the race as light as possible and it is here that Lewis may start the race with less fuel than Nico. My understanding of the displayed % is that it represents the usage of the allowance, not what is in the tank. Therefore 75% represents 75 kg used up to that point. If Lewis started the race with 95kg then then there is not much scope for him to turn the boost up to stay ahead of Nico. The sport should really make an effort to explains things to the fans.
Well having read all the preceding post with interest, in my opinion Hamilton has already effectively mentally defeated Rosberg, the way Hamilton was recruited and presented by Mercedes has negatively taken its toll, not to mention Hamiltons recent outstanding performances. I am not saying Rosberg is incapable of catching and beating Hamilton but I declare now, he wont. Lewis Hamiltons level of confidence in both himself, his hardware and his team is unassailable. And, he is brilliant at understanding and utilizing to the maximum the new technologies, a bit like a gaming machine, unlike poor old Vettel.
Thats how I understood it, that although the maximum capcity was 100Kg depending on circuit, strategy and driver(?) they could/would/may start with differing fuel loads and the % calculation was was of the total capcacity allowed. So would I be right in saying that if driver A has used 95% and Driver B has used 90% of fuel (capicity allowance) by the end of the race, they could in theory have started with differing amounts and finished with same amount at the end of the race? Does that make sense or am I just talking bollocks?
Do the FIA know how much fuel each car started with, or does it assume 100kg and then uses the fuel flow measurement device to work out how much of that has been used? Or as you say, does it know how much the car starts with and works it out based on that!? Somebody needs to answer this. Could be question of the year!
I think the FIA are only concerned with the total amount of fuel put into a car which as stated is up to "100 kilo grams weight" and the maximum flow rate at any given time of 100 kilo grams per hour per car per race. The amount of fuel any team put's into the tank is irrelevant as long as its less than 100 KG, presumably there is also a temperature spec for the fuel but I have been unable to determine this factor. Obviously any driver constantly driving at the maximum 100 kgs per hour will run out of fuel after 1 hour, therefore the entire fuel debate is irrelevant as most races last around 1.5 hours and consequently an average fuel usage rate greater than 0.66KG per hour will mean a car will run out of fuel before the end of the race. Unless of course he does a Fred Flintstone and a Barney Rubble, unlikely unless you are driving a Caterham or Marussia or dare I say the "Number 1 Red Bull".
Ah, I can see some confusion here. Please bear with me: the explanation itself is potentially confusing! Teams are allowed to put as much fuel in the car as they wish. (Yes, this means they can put in more than 100kg; or indeed, less!). Each car is limited to using a maximum of 100kg for the race (which does not include warm-up laps or in-laps). Cars may not consume fuel quicker than a rate of 100kg/hr at any point during the race. This rate is measured separately and is not reflected in the graphic seen on TV screens. See below. The graphic represents fuel usage as a percentage of the maximum allowed for the race (100kg). What this means: A car which begins the race lighter on fuel will initially display a larger percentage (of the maximum allowable) as 'used', whereas a fuller tank shows less. 'Used' is therefore something of a misnomer because the graphic is a real-time comparison of what remains in the tank against what was allowable for the whole race (100kg), rather than what was actually there: say 95kg or 105kg. I can see that this may be confusing, especially when most people will be aware of the fuel-flow metering, but it should now be clear that the graphic does not accurately represent what has actually been used because it takes no account of how much fuel was in the tank to begin with.
The sensor does not know what is in the tank. It only measures what is used. You can start off with 200kg in the tank. If the driver uses 50kg of fuel then the sensor will show 50% not 25%. Because using 50kg of fuel during a race from lights to flag is 50% of what you are allowed. The FIA are not interested in what the quantity of fuel is when the race begins. They monitor the rule via the sensor. Therefore the graphic is displaying the amount of fuel going through the sensor as a percentage of the 100kg rule not the percentage of the fuel in the tank. WEC LM24 have more stricter rules and rely on the same Gill sensors to enforce them.
So the result is that we don't know who us using less or more fuel because we have no starting reference.
