I saw the original ad and it was very clearly a parody (to me at least). UKIP probably will gain seats in Europe. Then they won't attend the votes, won't represent us, won't have the power to get us out of Europe yet I bet they will still take every penny of the allowance MEP's are paid (as they currently do). UKIP are the same as the rest - a party of social elitists run by a banker, funded by bankers. Funnily enough the EU want to curb London's financial powers so a bunch of bankers got together to prevent it by getting us out of the EU. UKIP are as big a joke as the established powers in my eyes. At least they don't look as racist as they once did what with the rise of Britain First/BNP/EDL or however they disguise themselves these days. Anyway trying to avoid politics as much as possible (on forums such as this) - just couldn't quite keep mead down! ;-)
dai, your argument is flawed, yes the UK has benefited hugely historically and presently from immigration. but the problem is opening the border to masses of unskilled labour, people who do not make a contribution to the public purse but just serve to lower wages for the people born here just trying to make a living. you cannot seem to tell the difference between good immigration and bad immigration. a successful immigration policy allows people that the UK need to come in, and prevents those we have no need for, coming in. you can have one without the other despite what labour and the lib dems say, outside of the EU this is a common policy. if i were an unskilled person with no job i would not be able to go the USA or AUS, even if i was skilled i would only be able to emigrate if the job couldn't be filled by a local, preserving jobs for locals. if they need nurses or doctors they give work permits, its just simple common sense which people may construe as xenophobia, but over time, people have become brainwashed into screaming racism when immigration is discussed. society has failed people like gendros, we should be ashamed.
Afcftc is totally wrong if he thinks we can trade at the same level out of the EU as in the EU. when we are funded by the EU to keep companies afloat and people in work then if we pull out then all the funding will stop and companies will collapse and thousands will lose their jobs....What do we trade with then ???? Your not thinking straight what leaving the EU will mean to Britain.
swamp what has immigration got to do with leaving the EU...And as far as i am concerned everyone in the EU can travel freely and work in each others countries. Its a bit rich for us to stop Europeans from coming over here when an estimated £2m + british are living and working in Europe...Its not The EU's fault that we have shocking border control that are so underfunded that they cant do their job efficiently, That fault lies firmly at the British governments door....
Pretty much agree with your 2nd post Dai but what funding for business comes from Europe(1st post)? Would seriously like to know as a business owner so I can get some of this funding. All I get from Europe is red tape on the one hand and easier trading conditions (but not perfect by any means) and standardised legal protection on the other. Good and bad. Just like every single government in the world.
dai, what has immigration got to do with leaving the EU? being in the EU means free movement of people within the EU, so we have no control of all the vagrants from eastern europe popping up selling the big issue, for example. yes, there are british people taking advantage of free movement, but i very much doubt a significant proportion are a burden on the taxpayer. 'Its not The EU's fault that we have shocking border control' by far the biggest proportion of people coming in are EU citizens, whether there is a job for them or not, they become valid for NHS treatment pretty much as soon as they come in. one of the reasons the UK is a great destination for the average slav on minimum wage…. yes, a border control service that actually does its job would be a start, but the point is those non EU migrants that come here without documentation are illegal and can be deported if they are found. i'm not sure what the situation with benefits / NHS services is to those people but i doubt they can take advantage of either so they shouldn't be the priority...
Yes! Which is my point exactly, ignoring the benefits while focusing purely on the disadvantages is ridiculous! As is focusing on the benefits while ignoring the disadvantages! Can the politicians of this country please grow up so we can have a rational debate not one which is reminiscent of a primary school debating club!
I think many are missing the point. The fact is that the EU is just downright undemocratic and I find that incredibly offensive. Our ancestors fought and died for democracy and now we have a massive behemoth of an organisation that appoints its own leaders. I say again, Herman van Rumpouy is President of the European Council and has been installed without reference to not one of the 500 million people he represents. Yet we still have the shoulder-shrug mentality of 'it doesn't matter because there's no alternative'. Frankly, it's disgraceful.
We should not have joined the EU in the first place and instead should have kept our own huge industries like steel,coal,milling slate,copper gold, and many more but previous governments never and they closed nearly everything that was earning out country a good living, Its far to late to pull out now as we are reliant on Europe to back the country up with millions and millions of pounds each and every day. We have well not we but previous governments have sold us down the river and its not that we should pull out like most of us want its the fact that we cannot pull out as this country cannot any longer go it alone as we don't have anything of worth to trade with and the Banks and utilities are being swallowed up by foreign owners who have been like gannets exploiting the mistakes made by those multi millionaires in government past and present...
Agree with Dai again for the most part but regarding the industry I disagree. Our heavy industries were becoming too uncompetitive globally by the 70's. There were many countries catching up on quality but beating us on price. We are very good at finance though and we are helped by being a stable, law abiding country compared to many so investors know the money is fairly safe. We will always be important in this respect with or without the EU imo. Instead of the uncompetitive old primary industries (coal, steel etc) we have more recently developed into a country that is fantastic at tertiary industry (assembly, detail, Big bucks construction, architecture, IT, Project Management, design etc) much like Germany. We joined the ECC as a trading partnership which is a terrific idea in of itself. The slow Federalisation of member countries into the EU is where the problems started in terms of self-governance. So long as Britain pushes what we are good at we will have a shot at surviving or thriving without the EU. It will be very difficult though and the next generation or two will have take a good few steps backwards before we right the ship again, much like the last great upheaval that lead us to joining Europe in the first place when our Primary industry went kaput.
Makes a change from the idiots at Westminster telling us what to do, and what bit about UK PLC is democratic!....................
^^^^Spot on Dai, the Tories have been selling our family silver for decades, and now we have no income, selling British Telecom, British Gas, British Petroleum, British Motor Corporation, British airways, etc, etc, etc, was just the start of the great British sell off, and it continues with one of our largest Pharmaceuticals causing issues this very week? Briton is now owned by faceless people all over the globe, and that's why we have such conflicts of interest from our so called Politicians, they are all whores, who have prostituted themselves out to the highest bidder, anyway here's a link to some more high st names that have been sold off under the 'Britain for sale' we stand uniquely in this madness, that's why I have no truck with that whore house they call Westminster!............. Britain for Sale Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lf-companies-foreigners-And-paying-price.html
When you read that article on the Link in my previous post, read the comments also from folk who have made their views known, here are a few! So why should I vote for this garbage at the top? I'd take up arms against them before I'd ever vote for the scum, they are no friend of the working class, and have never been, I just hope I live to see the back lash against the garbage running this country!..................
Well last time I looked we elected our MPs but you're right, the PM is always foisted upon us (Gordon Brown ring a bell?) and the Lords aren't even elected at all. The great British Public had a chance to change the ridiculousness of first-past-the-post but balked because they simply couldn't understand PR.
Here's the list of the Great British sell off, and remember these are the people behind the scenes running this country, you have all been sold down the river, and now they are cutting services because of the reduction in income that it has brought, and of course they'll have you believe it's the Unemployed, the Sick, and the Disabled that are at fault, make no mistake we have scum running this country, utter scum!................. United Kingdom 1970s British Petroleum (1977, 1979, 1981, 1987) International Computers Limited (1979) Lunn Poly (1971) Rolls-Royce Motors (1973) State Management Scheme (1973) Thomas Cook (1972) 1980s Amersham International (1982) Associated British Ports (1983, 1984) British Aerospace (1981, 1985) British Airports Authority (1987) British Airways (1987) British Airways Helicopters (1986) British Gas (1986) British Leyland Alvis (1981) Coventry Climax (1982) Danish Automobile Building (1987) Istel (1987) Jaguar (1984) Leyland Bus (1987) Leyland Tractors (1982) Leyland Trucks (1987) Rover Group (1988) Unipart (1987) British Rail Engineering Limited (1989) British Shipbuilders (1985 - 1989, shipbuilder companies sold individually) British Steel (1988) British Sugar (1981) British Telecom (1984, 1991, 1993) British Transport Hotels (1983) Britoil (1982, 1985) Cable and Wireless (1981, 1983, 1985) Council Houses (1980–present, over two million sold to their tenants) - see main article Right to buy scheme Enterprise Oil (1984) Fairey (1980) Ferranti (1980) Harland and Wolff (1989) Inmos (1984) Municipal Bus Companies (1988–present, bus companies sold individually) - see main article Bus deregulation in Great Britain National Bus Company (1986 - 1988, bus companies sold individually) National Express (1988) National Freight Corporation (1982) Passenger Transport Executive Bus Companies (1988 - 1994, bus companies sold individually) Rolls-Royce (1987) Royal Ordnance (1987) Sealink (1984) Travellers Fare (1988) Trustee Savings Bank (1985) Vale of Rheidol Railway (1989) Water Companies - see main article Water privatisation in England and Wales Anglian Water (1989) Northumbrian Water (1989) North West Water (1989) Severn Trent (1989) Southern Water (1989) South West Water (1989) Thames Water (1989) Welsh Water (1989) Wessex Water (1989) Yorkshire Water (1989) 1990s 3G spectrum (1999) AEA Technology (1996) Agricultural Development and Advisory Service (1997) Belfast International Airport (1994) Birmingham Airport (1993 - 51%) Bournemouth Airport (1995) Bristol Airport (1997, 2001) British Coal (1994) British Energy (1996) British Rail - see main article Privatisation of British Rail 3 Rolling Stock Companies Angel Trains (1996) Eversholt Leasing (1996) Porterbrook (1996) 6 Design Office Units (1995 - 1997, sold individually) 6 Freight Operating Companies Freightliner (1995) Loadhaul (1996) Mainline Freight (1996) Rail Express Systems (1996) Railfreight Distribution (1997) Transrail Freight (1996) 6 Track Renewal Units (1995 - 1997, sold individually) 7 Infrastructure Maintenance Units (1995 - 1997, sold individually) 25 Train Operating Companies (1996, operations contracted out as franchises) British Rail Research (1996) British Rail Telecommunications (1995) European Passenger Services (1996) Railtrack (1996), (18 October 2002 went into voluntary liquidation) now in public ownership as Network Rail Red Star Parcels (1995) Union Railways (1996) British Technology Group (1992) Building Research Establishment (1997) Cardiff Airport (1995) Central Electricity Generating Board National Grid (1990) National Power (1991, 1995) Powergen (1991, 1995) Chessington Computer Centre (1996) Department for National Savings (1999, back office functions contracted out) East Midlands Airport (1993) Girobank (1990) Humberside Airport (1999 - 82%) Kingston Communications (1999, 2007) Laboratory of the Government Chemist (1996) Liverpool Airport (1990, 2001) London Buses (1994, bus companies sold individually) - see main article Privatisation of London bus services London Luton Airport (1997) London Southend Airport (1993) National Engineering Laboratory (1995) National Transcommunications Limited (1990) Natural Resources Institute (1996) Northern Ireland Electricity (1993) Property Services Agency (1994) Regional Electricity Companies Eastern Electricity (1990) East Midlands Electricity (1990) London Electricity (1990) MANWEB (1990) Midlands Electricity (1990) Northern Electric (1990) NORWEB (1990) SEEBOARD (1990) Southern Electric (1990) SWALEC (1990) SWEB Energy (1990) Yorkshire Electricity (1990) Scottish Bus Group (1991, bus companies sold individually) Scottish Hydro-Electric (1991) Scottish Power (1991) Severn Bridge (1992) Student loans portfolios (1998, 1999, 2013) The Stationery Office (1996) Transport Research Laboratory (1996) Trust Ports (1992–1997, ports sold individually) 2000s Actis (2004, 2012) BBC Books (2006 - 85%) BBC Broadcast (2005) BBC Costumes and Wigs (2008) BBC Outside Broadcasts (2008) BBC Technology (2004) British Nuclear Fuels Limited AWE Management Limited (2008) BNG America (2007) BNG Project Services (2008) Reactor Sites Management Company (2007) Westinghouse Electric Company (2006) Directory Enquiries (2003) East Thames Buses (2009) Leeds Bradford International Airport (2007) National Air Traffic Services (2001 - 51%) Newcastle Airport (2001 - 49%) Partnerships UK (2000, 2011) Qinetiq (2002, 2006, 2008) South Eastern Trains (2006) Teesside International Airport (2003 - 75%) UKAEA Limited (2009) 2010s[edit] 4G spectrum (2013) BBC Audiobooks (2010 - 85%) BBC Magazines (2011) Behavioural Insights Team (2014 - 67%) Bio Products Laboratory (2013 - 80%) Fire Service College (2013) High Speed 1 (2010) Lloyds Banking Group (2013 - 6%) Manchester Airports Group (2013 - 35%) Northern Rock (2012) Remploy (2012, 2013, factory businesses sold individually) Royal Mail (2013 - 70%) The Tote (2011) No other country on the planet has done such a thing as this!................
And that my friends is why there is no way now that we can ever leave the EU. We are in far too deep to ever contemplate on ever thinking we are GREAT Britain... We are far from great and will never be great again....we do not have the finances to be great again and that is the worst part...It's sad it really is....
