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What's the problem with our defence?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by danilo., May 11, 2014.

  1. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    can only socre own goal by being last man...ok two werepoor hacks but still he tries.

    He has been brilliant in attacking the ball up the field and this has been his secret
     
    #21
  2. CCC

    CCC Poet Laureate

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    Exactly, he takes responsibility. Some posters have said he looks nervous at the back? I would if I was with some of that shower! Slight exaggeration there but, TBF, he's t he only one of our defence who should be proud of his defensive work this year. Hopefully, he's as good next year and one of our other CBs steps up in class. That or we sign another one. Caulker would be a decent and cheap addition.
     
    #22
  3. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    I've been saying that for ages. We've really missed Carra imo - even if only for his organising. I saw some stats a while ago that compared Reina to Mignolet and while [at the time] the % were very similar, Reina had faced about 100 less shots than Mignolet, which shows the defence in front of him was doing a much better job.
     
    #23
  4. Livtor

    Livtor Active Member

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    What, didn't we buy a leader in Sakho?
     
    #24
  5. Does he look like a leader? <doh>
     
    #25
  6. Livtor

    Livtor Active Member

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    Aren't you one of the many posters that were saying our future defense should be build around Sakho?
     
    #26
  7. For someone who claims to be so clued up on the game, you don't half throw some silly comments out there <laugh>

    Building a defence around him doesn't mean he is a leader! He is a young defender that can tackle, pass and get his head on things, he also has some pace and is built like a brick **** house, he has the makings to be a quality CB. However, he needs a leader / organiser alongside him.
     
    #27
  8. Livtor

    Livtor Active Member

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    Speaking about having a clue... you're selling your man short and don't know f*ck about him, given that he was a leader for both club and country, actually captain for PSG since 17 yro, and a guy who genuinely takes that leadership role to heart in everything he does.
     
    #28
  9. Just because I don't state he was captain doesn't mean I don't know! However, him being PSG captain, means ****all really, especially as it was before they started spending millions! Was Michael Owen a good captain...? I tend to use my eyes rather than read the papers. Sakho hardly talks, he certainly doesn't organise or lead by example.
     
    #29
  10. danilo.

    danilo. Well-Known Member

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    The system isn't necessarily at fault. I totally agree. It's the players we are putting in the system that don't work sometimes. Gerrard is a square peg in a round hole. He cannot cover the back 4 like Lucas does so well in that solitary Mascherano role. It leaves the CB's exposed which is a huge problem and that makes Skrtel look worse than he is. I might seem harsh on him and I don't think that's fair. He's been good yes. He's a solid defender that in the right system can thrive and be a title-challenging player. Is that our system? I'm really not convinced. If we fix the problem with the DM role by either signing a replacement for Lucas OR letting Lucas have his real role back, then maybe our defenders won't be cuaght out so much. The fullbacks seriously don't do enough work to track back. Johnson tries to make it back about 50% of the time but the other 50% he switches off and looks to Agger/Sakho/Skrtel to bail him out. Flanagan, I love the lad but he's been naive at points this season and he's still too inexperienced to get that spot for his own. He isn't fast - Enrique would be so much better for our system if he could just sort his knee out (doubt that will happen at this point).

    Skrtel does need babysitting which is fine - but not at the moment. He's one of our senior defenders and at this point it's Sakho's turn to be babysat for a while. Who is better at babysitting? Agger.

    You may be right with the problem of switching sides, but it's not that much of a change. It needs a run of games for it to work - Agger can't learn unless he plays. Our CB's are adequate IF we fix up the other issues AND they get to form partnerships. Otherwise we risk having a constant unease for the next few seasons, switching it up too often. Toure got a lot of stick but I think he's done okay and I'm glad we signed him. He isn't a first choice by any means though. A very good third choice possibly but I would like to see Ilori get some minutes this season. We gave up so easily on Coates and that hurt his confidence and gave him no experience.

    If possible I'd go for Nastasic at City who, while injury-prone a little, has been excellent whenever given a run in the team for them. I think he's only just turned 21 too. Him with Sakho in a partnership could be great. This isn't FM though so not too sure how realistic that is.




    And Gerrez, your point about Mascherano was spot on.
     
    #30

  11. Agree with the highlighted bit (obviously since I've already said similar) but I can't see Gerrard going anywhere any time soon so looks like its a issue we're stuck with for now. Pushing him alongside Hendo in the two would make things worse IMO too, it would stop the pressing game like before.


    Cheers <ok>
     
    #31
  12. Livtor

    Livtor Active Member

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    You're selling your man short, period. He's a lot about leadership, and if you're denying him that, you're denying him a major quality and also stripping him of self-belief.
     
    #32
  13. I player either leads by example (aka Gerrard) or leads vocally (Carragher). How the **** does Sakho lead...? He does talk and he isn't exactly setting a top class standard as an example either is he? Jeez!
     
    #33
  14. Livtor

    Livtor Active Member

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    <laugh> Listen, I agree with you. I don't rate the fella, going by what I've seen this season.

    The fact that you don't rate Sakho's leadership skills, which are claimed to be a major asset of his, means pretty much you just don't rate the fella. So then, come to my wing. Don't say vacuously 'Let's build our defence around Sakho'.
     
    #34
  15. danilo.

    danilo. Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, Sakho was PSG's captain for a long time and just because they didn't spend millions when he was there (though he was there during that time too) doesn't make it any less of an achievement when you're 20 years old.

    Many of their fans are disappointed in his departure as he embodied a youth academy player coming through and giving his all for the club. Remember, he was born and grew up in Paris, played for Paris FC and then transferred to Paris St. Germain, where he was a captain at the age of 17 years and 8 months - the youngest ever captain in Ligue 1. He captained the French U-16,17,18,19, and 21 sides as he progressed through the ranks. He has been playing for the national team for a number of years now.

    I guarantee you that his quietness stems from the lack of experience he has with English culture and probably a great deal of homesickness. He probably speaks broken English and didn't know his teammates so well this season. It's unfair to say he isn't a leader when leadership is one of his most important attributes.

    He wasn't a leader for us this season but I'm sure he will eventually get there.

    His standard was no worse than any of the other defenders we had (even above at times) which is impressive given that he just turned 24, nearly a decade younger than Kolo and ~5 years younger than Agger/Skrts.


    He does need to improve though, like the rest of them, I just don't doubt that he will.
     
    #35
  16. Sharpe*

    Sharpe* Senior Member

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    I think you're being a little harsh on Skirts.

    He was better than Agger, Sakho and Toure this year scoring quite a few goals including against City, Chelsea and Arsenal.

    I agree we need a better CB because he loses concentration occasionally but I'd keep Skirts for his performances this year and sell Agger who has done absolutely nothing for the past 3 years besides being injured and being beaten in the air.

    Skirts was often exposed by Johnson this year when we would have to come across to cover. Actually think Skirts had a good season and was particularly crucial in the games vs City and Norwich where he even carried the ball out of defence which he never used to do.

    He certainty performed as best he could which I would not say Johnson, Agger, Toure or Sakho did.
     
    #36
  17. jenners04

    jenners04 I must not post porn!

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    think skrts could be our new carra, but we need a hyypia type next to him, can sakho be that or Llori.

    Agger,Toure and Johnson all need to go, but will we lose that much of our defence in one go, might be too much in one go so who will be lucky enough to survive the chop, should imagine Toure will be a cert to go.

    also dont forget we have Coates and Kelly who offer nothing as well, and we have Wisdom coming back.

    our defence may need an over haul but how many will go in one go, 5 seems unlikely.
     
    #37
  18. Sharpe*

    Sharpe* Senior Member

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    Yeah Coates needs to go too.

    He said to the press when asked about whether he's ready for the Premier League that the reporter needed to "ask the boss" and that not everyone fits in every league.

    I like Kelly, but think it may be time to cut our losses.
     
    #38
  19. All that may well be true but I'm judging the lad on the season he's just had with us and he's simply not been a leader at all. However, I do believe Sakho has the makings to become a top defender and the defence should be built around him but he needs a vocal leader alongside him.
     
    #39
  20. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Sakho will become the leader of the defence. It's hard to communicate when you don;t know the language yet and when you're playing alongside a senior member who doesn't know how to lead or organise.
     
    #40

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