Having returned from a strangely sombre game today, I was left wondering whether Felix is the man for us or not. On the one hand, I think he has not had the opportunity to put his mark on the team. On the other hand I was left a bit bemused by what his tactics are as a manager. My son and I were talking this through post game. I am asking the regulars on here as I have admittedly not seen much of our games, just those on sky. So the conversation went something along these lines. What is Felix trying to get the team to play like, what is HIS formation and what is HE tactically trying to achieve. From watching the little I have seen I struggle it identify any defining features. However, I did today see some inkling of tactics. The full backs were pushing very high up the pitch and hugging the touch line, whilst the wingers moved inside condensing the centre of the park. Unfortunately Hugo offered no movement up front so the system was a bit one dimensional. Is this something that as regular followers to the games anyone has seen ? If not does anyone know what Felix's ' style ' of play is. I am not being critical of Penfold by saying this, it is more curiosity. Watching the performance today it is glaringly obvious why we have been relegated and I feel for him as some of the senior players were frankly terrible. Parker must have been wearing a palace shirt under his fulham one the amount of times he have it away. Zverotic is , well ,,,,,,,, Zverotic. Rodders did himself no favours. I was impressed with tunnicliffes brief introduction, I would love to see him in a deep defensive role, breaking up play and playing easy passes, as well as covering attacking full backs.
I'm not a season ticket holder because I live too far away for it to be viable (transport costs rather than ST costs) but I am convinced Felix is the right man. This is an extract from his reaction to the match and, I think, hits the nail on the head. With Academy winger George Williams on the bench, Magath vowed to give youth a chance next term, continuing: “The team I selected today was a sign that we will change something in the future – that we don’t rely on older players. We have a good youth academy but they haven’t appeared much in our team. I will take care of the young players and bring them into the team.” Asked where he felt it had gone wrong this season, Magath concluded: “We had too much upheaval and changes in one season. We had no team which really was Fulham. That was a big problem. I’m sorry to say such things but we didn’t fight as a team.”
In a nut shell Felix has summed it up perfectly which is great news. I guess if you understand a problem you can make changes to rectify it.
I have been criticised many times in the past for giving my views on what i have perceived as bad managers ,and wanting to get rid of. But lets face it football is big business, and if one in charge through their actions or inability to produce the requirements of their employer, then their position in whatever capacity is on the line. I am in no way advocating at this stage that Felix should go, but I would have thought that by Christmas a general assessment regarding his managerial performance could be made. Lets face it if (and it would be strange) we found ourselves top of the league with points and games to spare at the turn of the year, would we be able to prevent his leaving, if some big club came knocking. So my point being, let him or anybody else be judged on performance and not sentimentality And please lets not at the start of this season sign another rehab from an orthopaedic ward.
His tactics have seemed odd at times, but I am of the opinion that it is not really fair to judge Felix's tactics in too much depth. He has not signed a player for us yet and there were plenty on here of the opinion that our squad was not good enough anyway. Felix tried to mix things up, but he didn't really have the players to do much with. Players like Parker and Riise have big egos and not much talent left at this point, which is a horrible combination when you're trying to change tactics.
Frogman, I think you are right in the use of wide players, attacking full backs and I believ his previous sides did play attractive attacking football. Maybe DR could confirm? I think he is the perfect man to steady the ship and build decent foundations for the future. He didn't have a chance really, the rot had set in and is typified by the comments from senior players at half time 'we don't have any fight left'. I'm surprised those guy(s) came out for the second half! One point is that over the last 3 years the first team squad, in real terms, has gone backwards. It wouldn't surprise me if it took a little longer to get back on track.
That was shown yesterday when he left his position in the wall for us to concede the second and Stockdale rightfully had a go.. The sooner we get rid off the cabbie the better. (Cabbie because of his continuous turns like a black cab!)
What sticks in my mind with Parker was a moment in the Hull game where Riether made a forward run and Parker hesitated to make the pass before making it too late and losing the ball. For at least a minute afterwards the pair argued as the game went on. Now Parker may have been right, but he has not shown anywhere near enough leadership this year to be able to berate a senior player on the pitch for such a minor thing. He has not led by example, in fact he's been very poor, and yet some how he still likes to feel he's the club captain.
Also to answer the question of the posting. Magath has indeed tried to play with the wingers and thus the formations of 3-5-2 we have seen this season. Unfortunately for him we have niether a good RB or a LB for known reasons. Also tries to play the ball in the middle but that has not worked much either due to lack of CM. Holtby was the man for this but was played out of position (maybe Magath to blame?). In any case yesterday there were spells when we played some good football. David was exceptionally good. Woodrow as well. These players should have been introduced in the first team end of last season... Oh well, future looks promising.
I think Magath is a good manager and has every right to be given the chance to continue on next season but personally I'm not convinced he is the right man to fully utilise and develop our academy. I'd rather we put in place a long term plan with the next 3-5 years in mind. His selection yesterday was disappointing - I'd like to have seen him give games to players like Roberts and dembele and burn and show us the spine of our team for the next few years. I think Reither may be one of the big culprits he referred to about not fighting - he's one of our better players but unfortunately knows it and had a safety net of finding a new club quite easily if we went down. Sadly I think brede is another lacking in fight and should not have been our captain - he was quality but never looked a leader.
Roberts was away with England squad so couldn't play. Hangeland probably was his last game and captain. Burn came out at the end and was the only player not in the squad to come and thank the fans, so I am sure will see more of him. I was happy with David coming on so early as showed what is all about. Also pleased for Woodrow scoring the goal. Great composition that Bent should be taking lessons if he wants to continue playing football. Also great to see Tunnicliffe as I believe he can be a good player for us. I read today on the papers that one player replied to Magath on the question what's going on, that they can't fight... That says everything and gives us a bit of insight of team selections...
I'm guessing the player who made the comment is likely to be Sidders or Parker - Stek another who looked like he was doing some charity work alongside Berba. I'm not sure about Tunnicliffe - what is his position? I thought it was Cm but haven't seen him play there - worrying that he was sent back to us early. Sounds like he has a case of the K. Richardson's and has come out of United with an inflated view of his own ability which only years of failure will drum out of him. Now that Richardson has had his epiphany I think he can be a good player for us next season - although he was poor yesterday.
Looks like Magath has a confrontational style of management. If a player doesn't carry out his orders (even if played out of position) he will publicly say so. It is a German trait that managers will lay down the law, they expect professionalism from players, and expect them to perform to the highest standards what ever position they are played in. Players who think they know better will find out who is boss. I've not been convinced about his substitutes, his gambles in team selection, he talks the talk, but a lot of it seems sound bites of what supporters might want to hear at the time. Having said that I always want continuity and to give managers time, so hope he stays on to get to finish the revival and doesn't leave late in the summer leaving us in the lurch, as I think he is an opportunistic manager, and he is a bit like Khan, I don't buy into his rants. I'm yet to be convinced by both Khan or Magath.
I'm note sure what the tactics have been. To me it's been different each game and the change of personnel on the field each game has been strange. Tunicliffe and Cole going immediately on loan after a good game against Man Utd - odd. then playing Tunicliffe for the end of season game. Woodrow & Dembele, in the squad then out. Burn, doing well and gaining confidence then put massively out of position and made to look a fool. Playing Dempsey when he just wasn't performing - there's loads of examples of poor decision making that's cost us. I'm not one for changing the manager again but I do hope that he gets to know the players well and starts to form the basis of a first team and can play to their strengths. We've got good players, young ones at that and so if he works with them well I think we will have a good season next year. I just hope he is the man to do it. It will be such a waste if he isn't. Best thing about yesterday was the youngsters scoring. That will give them much confidence.
There are so many things coming out of this thread, much of which sums up the wrongs of the season. So starting with the Felix, I admit not always being clear on what he's trying to achieve (but the same could be said on Jol). However, I know he has a track record and came in too late to make a difference. Our status was not lost during his watch. One think I do believe is that changing manager again now would be a recipe for further disaster. We've set a new club record for having 5 managers in the club during one season. Talking of records, Fulham have used more players than any other team this season - a problem that underpins a number of comments in this thread. The best manager in the world might have struggled. And effects what happens on the pitch all the time - one example yesterdat was a diagonal pass to where Reither (who I commend, unlike others) would have been - new boy except Zverotic was not sure when to stick or twist. The first important thing is to work-out which youngsters we need and how to ensure we keep them. Secondly, have a group of experienced players to keep the team on-track. I'm happy to keep Steve Sidwell (since we can't have Danny Murphy, nor should Scott Parker stay) but we need another old-hand for midfield so that the Championship journeymen don't overrun us. I'm seriously thinking about keeping Amorbieta (really?), but the rest on the aged backline can go. So we need to buy wisely - Can Felix do this? AliMac better get thinking how to help; and Mr Khan get the chequebook out! Back to the title of this thread - I renewed! COYW
Good post froggy and equally good responses that underline the enigma which is currently Felix. Felix is reported as saying that football is like a game of chess so he clearly has a strategic approach to matches . The difficulty at the moment is understanding how that translates into a system and tactics. On Sunday for instance, when a left winger playing on the right (Kaca) was injured he brought on a central midfielder (David). And that despite the fact that he had two wingers on the bench (Dejagah and Williams). First off playing Kaca on the right confirms that one system Felix prefers is playing with inverted wingers. Second though, replacing him with a midfielder leaves confusion as to what Felix’s tactics were. Early in the second half he replaced Zverotic with Dejagah. I think we all knew that bringing on Dejagah would be a tactical change that Felix would always make. What’s not clear is whether Zverotic coming off was enforced because of injury or planned. Whichever, Dejagah then played on the left (the inverted winger). Consequently things became congested in the middle of the park and especially on the left side. Throughout the second half we had no outlet/width on the right. There was no balance or apparent system to the side. The week before Felix opted for Dan Burn at right back. I think this was tactical because he expected Crouch to be playing (he often lurks at the back post). When that didn’t happen and it was obvious Dan was getting a roasting then why didn’t Felix make the tactical change of switching Heitinga and Burn? Those examples probably appear critical of Felix and in a way they are because things obviously didn’t work out as hoped. But actually in another way they hint that there is in fact method within the apparent madness. Where I believe the confusion/lack of understanding for us fans comes about because of the inability of the players to use common sense to implement his system and/or tactics. For example, on Sunday, Palace had a corner and their danger man Dunn came up to the right corner of the box. Who tried to cover him? Richardson. And this while Hangeland and Amorebieta were busy holding onto smaller player in the centre. Needless to say Dunn got in a header and narrowly missed. Another example. I wasn’t quite correct in saying that we didn’t exploit the space on the right in the second half. We did on occasion, through Heitinga - a centre back. However when we did nobody fell back to cover the space that he then left in our defence. In fact this has been a major failing all season - not playing as a team and covering for one another. The point I’m trying to make is that the players, for all their so-called experience, have been unprofessional and consistently failed to demonstrate what are very basic footballing tactics. So is it any wonder we don’t know what the Felix System is.
Ok to sum it then: Felix is staying as manager 3 - 5 - 2 is the closest we are to a formation Inverted wingers are part of that system. From the little I have seen of the championship it is played at a quick tempo. An experienced but slowish centre back is effective. The quality of ball retention is average. If we could keep Hangeland he would be very important, likewise with Sidwell. Their premiership experience would be invaluable. Using some of the younger players who seem to have great awareness of their teammates and use the ball quickly but effectively would give us a real edge. Players like Chris David, Cauley Woodrow, Pat Roberts, George Williams will be vital for the balance of the team. However, Tunnicliffe and Dan Burn, as well as Jack Grimmer could bring Championship/league 1 experience. Stockers Grimmer/Amorebieta Brede Hangeland Dan Burn Chris David Rowan Vine ( Brighton centre midfielder ) Ryan Tunnicliffe Steve Sidwell Ashkan Dejagah Pat Roberts Moussa Dembele / Marcello Trotta / Cauley Woodrow The more I think about playing 3 - 5 - 2 the I think it will be really exciting to watch and we do have the players to pull it off.
Not Amorebieta (liability) or Hangeland (past it). Instead Heitinga (assuming his talks with Felix this week are fruitful).
Do you mean Rohan Ince, Froggy? He's a young central midfielder at Brighton. Rowan Vine is a striker at Greenock Morton (thanks, Wikipedia!) If so, I don't think we need to be buying in young midfield talent - we've got plenty of our own to bring through. If we are signing midfielders, it should be someone with the experience to help nurture our youngsters. I really hope Sidwell stays, but I'm not convinced that he's going to.
In all honesty I dont thing Brede's heart was in it this season. Amore is not great either. Stockdale, Heitinga and Reither, Sidwell plus one other and an experienced and decent forward as the spine. Put the young uns in around them. Space for 6 or more youngsters if they are rotated. To include Trotta, Dembele, Burn, Grimmer, Woodrow, Roberts, Williams and Mesca. Voila! That would be exciting!
