F1 engine debate rages on By Gordon Kirby on 17 June 2011 Share this: Renault is threatening to pull out of Formula 1 if the much-discussed new 1.6-litre, four-cylinder turbo engine formula for 2013 is not soon confirmed by the FIA. Many people in F1 believe the new formula will be put off for a year or two, and some hope the FIA will relent and opt instead for a turbo V6. Following more than a year’s discussions with the teams and engine suppliers, the FIA is expected to make a decision on delaying the new formula by the end of the month. Renault is the only enthusiastic supporter of the tiny turbo concept, which has failed to attract interest from new manufacturers. Both Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz prefer V8s or at least V6s, and everyone is worried about the costs of building and developing new engines. Still, FIA president Jean Todt is a big proponent of the small-capacity turbo and with Renault’s strong support he may insist on that formula. McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh has been deeply involved in formal talks about the new formula and discussed the matter in Montréal. “I think the traditionalist who believes we need large-capacity, normally-aspirated engines has to accept that they may not be attractive to car companies in this day and age,” he said. “So there was some logic in the thought that we need a solution that is attractive to them. Unfortunately, with hindsight we got it wrong, because the intention of the 2013 formula was to see if we could attract more manufacturers. “Plainly we didn’t, and we failed to do that because we came in at the end of the largest recession the automotive sector has ever had. We also gave them too short a timeframe to develop a new engine. I don’t think it’s worth criticising anyone over it. That’s how it transpired. “The important issue for F1 is that we find a formula which is attractive to the car industry. We should have a model that averages [involvement from] three to five manufacturers, and inevitably they will rotate. “We have to accept, respect and not despise the fact that the manufacturers are here to sell cars. If F1 is to be the ideal platform for product exposure and differentiation of their brand we need a formula that is relevant to them and to the needs of society. “We’ve got to ensure that F1 continues as the technical pinnacle of motor sport. It has to be technically advanced, relevant, entertaining and differentiated. It’s not an easy task, but we have to work hard to achieve that.” Whitmarsh personally would prefer a turbo V6. “We need great-sounding engines, it’s a core asset of our sport. But there’s no reason why you can’t have forward-looking technology and a great sound. I personally feel we’ve got to seek a compromise. If it were my call I’d probably go for a turbocharged V6. I think more and more cars are going to be turbocharged. “We’ve got to have high revs. A vee engine suits the structure of an F1 car and we’ve got to have that unique sound. It might be different from today’s cars but I think it can still be fantastic.” Eric Boullier (above), managing director of the Lotus-Renault team, said that if Renault continues in F1 it wants to put its main effort into supplying multiple teams. “Renault is pushing to supply maybe four teams. We’ve told the FIA that is our goal. Renault has decided to focus on being an engine supplier and as such we are pushing to bring new technology to F1. This is the only way for Renault to communicate their know-how and make sure they can use the opportunity of being in F1 to promote road car sales. “The tendency of the road car market, especially for Renault, is to go to smaller engines with more hybrid technology to make fuel savings. F1 has to move forward. We need new regulations and new technical challenges for our engineers. “Formula 1 can’t become just a show,” Boullier added. “We have to be seen as motor sport pioneers and technology is part of that. But we need to please our fans as well.” Cosworth’s Mark Gallagher said: “There’s a big concern on our side because the new rules have no cost restrictions applied. So the manufacturers can spend a huge amount of money and we would have a space race around the new engine formula, which was never the idea. Everyone agreed that wasn’t the idea, but unfortunately that’s what happened. So we’ve also said to the FIA that a delay might be the right thing to do. I think all the teams, not just our customers, don’t need to be spending more money on engine technology. “We want clarity. If it’s a 1.6-litre motor, fine, we’ll be there. If not, we’ve got a V8 that we can continue with. We’re agnostic. We don’t have to have a V8 or V12 or an in-line four. If the F1 rules required a single-cylinder two-stroke, we’d be there. The FIA president has said he’s listening and taking in everything we’re saying. We just want a resolution.”
Spoken like the truth... The others were at fault for not being as good as RBR in recent years. RBR certainly weren't at fault for building a great car.
All i got from that is that Renault wanted 4 cylinder engines, not V6's, so technically i was right and you can deal with it
Once the engine specs were decided upon they still had the same amount of time as everyone else to build an engine to compete for this season, regardless of how many cylinders it had.
Doesn't seem like they were playing around huh? They wanted the change to happen and happen quickly... Formula One: Renault likely to quit if engine rule change delayed By: Quentin Spurring on June 17, 2011 LAT PHOTOGRAPHIC - Renault Sport managing director Jean-Francois Caubet says the automaker needs to link its racing technology with its road cars. Renault appears likely to quit Formula One racing if the FIA's controversial "greener" engine plan is not implemented in 2013. Renault Sport managing director Jean-Francois Caubet has made it clear that the French automaker decided to stay in F1 as an engine supplier only on condition that the new regulations were adopted as scheduled. He added that, if the FIA's 1.6-liter turbo formula is postponed even for just two years, Renault's ongoing participation cannot be guaranteed. In view of the current uncertainty of its management board, in fact, he described Renault's engine program as being “in the red zone." Having sold its interest in U.K.-based Renault F1 Team last year, Renault stayed on to supply its 2.4-liter V8 to the new owners, as well as to Red Bull Racing and Team Lotus. Caubet told Autosport magazine: "We've told Jean Todt and Bernie Ecclestone that we're pushing for the new engine because when we decided not to stop in Formula One the three conditions were very clear for the board. The first was to change the technology of the engine to make it more relevant, to find a link between Formula One and the product. Secondly to reduce the costs. Thirdly, to perform. “We've halved the costs, [and] we've performed with Red Bull Racing. But the problem of the road [car] relevance is a key point for us. We're in the 'red zone' because we have no idea what will be the future for Renault. If we don't stick with the new regulations, or if the regulations change, we'll be losing control of the situation--and then it becomes a problem with the board. They [will] want to understand who is managing the sport. "The cost of Renault in F1 is around 100 million euros, and you can't change direction just like that. We told Nissan what the future of F1 was like, and we opened the door for Nissan and Infiniti to be in F1. [For them] it's a long-term strategy, not branding for one year. They were following Renault for the new engine--and today we don't know where we are. “The problem [about a delay] is that, even if the new engine [is rescheduled to] arrive in 2015, then the credibility will be zero. That is a key point. “We've [already] spent $10 million on the new engine. We have 20 people working on it. Can you imagine sending them back [to the management board]?"
ok, don't get too giddy dhel, i recall reading about Mercedes threatening to leave if they didn't switch to 1.6 litre engines as well.
Mercedes says it would probably have quit Formula 1 if the sport had not adopted its new turbo hybrid engines. Professor Dr Thomas Weber, the Daimler board member responsible for research and development, said the engines provided the justification to continue. "The key challenge for the future is fuel economy and efficiency and, with the change in regulations, F1 is the spearhead for development," Weber said. He said it had become "hard to explain" why F1 was using the old V8 engines. The sport switched this year to 1.6-litre turbo hybrid engines, replacing naturally aspirated V8s. Mercedes have dominated so far, with Lewis Hamilton winning two of the first three races and team-mate Nico Rosberg the other. Efficiency is at the heart of the new F1, with a limited fuel allowance and a maximum fuel-flow rate. Play media F1's 2014 rule changes F1 2014 rule changes Renault - one of F1's two other car manufacturers - threatened to quit if the sport did not adopt the new engines, because the old V8s were no longer relevant to road-car development. Now Mercedes has revealed it would also probably have stopped if F1 had not decided to commit to the efficiency formula in 2009, around the time BMW and Toyota left the sport. "I think so, yeah," Weber told BBC Sport. "Because we had the discussion." "We had at different times the challenge to discuss F1 with the [Daimler] supervisory board," he added. "We had hard discussions. And it was always - and even more so when it came to the later years - harder to explain why we were using naturally aspirated engines. "Now with these new regulations I can clearly convince the supervisory board that the [F1 team] are doing exactly what we need - downsizing, direct injection, lightweight construction, fuel efficiency on the highest possible level, new technologies and combining a combustion engine with an e-motor hybrid." Play media Bahrain Grand Prix highlights: Hamilton beats Rosberg in thriller Bahrain Grand Prix highlights: Hamilton beats Rosberg in thriller Weber rejected the criticisms that have been levelled at the new rules by powerful figures such as F1 commercial rights holder Bernie Ecclestone and Ferrari president Luca Di Montezmolo. Weber said it was a "stupid discussion" to claim that the fuel-flow restriction was too complicated for the audience to understand, saying it was merely a "communication issue" and pointing to the complexities of modern road cars. And while he accepted the decision for F1 to "look at" whether it was possible to make the new engines louder, he added: "We can demonstrate to the public that it is still emotional, even if the noise level is a little bit quieter. "Of course we can look if there is a little bit more possible. But in the meantime all the road cars are going for turbos, downsizing, so even a Porsche now sounds similar. So people learn it. That's easy." He said technology transfer to road cars from the new F1 engines, with their dual energy recovery systems, was already happening and he hailed the "incredible" achievement of all the engine designers in F1. The new F1 engines have a thermal efficiency of "40% and above" - better than that of a road-going diesel. "Never before did we do such a huge step forward in such a small space of time from a V8 naturally aspirated engine to downsizing, turbocharged, all the technologies with one step," Weber said. "It was the biggest challenge ever."
Oh Sgt.. A question for you.... Is Hamilton conserving a bit too much fuel in the races? He seems to be conserving a bit much through.
Is there any data on how much he used in the last few laps? Maybe he used up some of his reserve to keep Rosberg behind.
I dint see the measurement on the last couple laps but close to the end he had quite a lot in reserve.
"I wasn't fast enough really today," said Hamilton. "Nico was quicker. I had to rely on my engineers to tell me where I could find time and what the gap was. He was obviously still fast enough to win the race. Maybe they shouldn't have tweaked the car after 2nd practice which made it worse?
Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton. Another superb drive. … And whilst I do not consider team mate Nico Rosberg to be mentally beaten, he must be beginning to sense it more likely he finishes the season as runner-up.
