The only trade that NZ really wants from the UK now are tourists, and even the proportion of those is decreasing now that we are getting more Chinese. On a more serious note, many of the arguments that are appearing here, both personal and reported, are ones that right wing politicians espouse here about Chinese and Korean immigration. Even people I like blame Chinese drivers for every accident that happens on the roads. People around the world are suspicious of others who look different and speak a different language. As I discovered as a child in South Africa, there is one thing worse than a member of another race/culture; that is the supporters of other cultures and races. Not only are those supporters traitors to the country they are also traitors to the race - which is seen as being far worse. Petty racism has to be stamped on to stop worse things happening later. I left the UK before UKIP existed so I only know what I read, but they sound scary to me.
Westminster ride roughshod over the populace - surely not? Although I do admit to having checked my bank account after Cameron's announcement today. Glad to report that it's still there....
Top man - I have also had a few beers so am following your lead and going to rant at the bizarre voting on Eurovision instead.....
This is a good thread. Everyone should be entitled to their own views when it comes to voting. Nobody should be told by someone else that their views are wrong, whether they agree with them or not.
On another note, at least the politics back home isn't as corrupt as here. The president here is a joke, the other day he spoke and I thought I saw fingers coming out of his mouth. The people pulling the (and his) string have their hands that far up his ass.
That is the fault in the system Leo, in my humble opinion. You are 100% correct, but for me it just doesn't add up right.
I think a couple of you did this.... what is interesting is it is based on policies. You have to choose policies and then it tells you what parties wrote them and gives you a breakdown of your policies based on it. So for me I came out with more green but also labour and lib dem with a splash of tory and ukip. It also tells you how everyone in your constituency who has done this came out. So in Leeds NW (Mulholland Lib Dem} most people came out green for example. I think most people vote on headline policy or ideology... .so this is an interesting way of examining your views re actual policy. Incidentally I voted lib dem last time in Leeds to "keep the tories out" .... so there you go.
I dont see what newspapers have got to do with this..... of course we could bring "objective" papers like the mail or the telegraph into this...couldnt we.... or any tabloid. Incidentally we took our daughter out of her comprehensive as she was getting nowhere in a school of 2000 pupils. After two years, they didnt even know her enough to write a report for her new school. The head of year came to her and asked her Then we sent her to a private school in a much "better" area, and the maths teacher was so bad we had to pay for all her maths tuition privately.... and yes he did have a strong accent ( Yorkshire!). I did see a programme recently on the BBC ( oh does that make me a loony lefty) and it more or less intimated that because so much of our GDP comes from international banking it would be suicide to leave the EC. Probably when it comes down to it it will be money that decides this one. Given that Boris as London Mayor, for all his populist bombosity, has been shown to meet more with bankers than any other group, this gives a good indication of what matters. Which is probably why we we wont get a referendum or if we do it will nbe worded in such a way that we wont leave the EC in any case. Why leave anyway.... we even are getting a few Eurovision points now
One thing I would find amusing if I didn't really find it serious is the effect UKIP will have. They look likely to "win" the European elections. They take more support from the Tories than other parties and consequently the Tories are unlikely next year to gain the extra votes and therefore seats they would need to form a government on their own. Assuming that Labour win that election or that there is a coalition between the Lib dems and one of the other two major parties then there will be no referendum and no exit from Europe. Therefore a vote for UKIP will ensure Britain stays in the EU Ironic or what
My fear is that UKIP will do well in the European elections because of voter apathy ie. non voters - we all know that a low turnout (as you get at Euro elections) tends to favour the smaller parties.
Have to say that I totally disagree with that last point. Yes, everyone has the right to abstain from voting - but none of those who chose to do so are given an option of stating why. So effectively they are being forced to either vote for a party they have no faith in, no connection with and for policies that are against their beliefs - or not vote at all. In no way does that mean they have forfeited any right to complain, it simply means that they have been effectively disenfranchised by a system that says 'these are your options, pick one'. If you live in a country, pay tax in a country and contribute to the economy and community in that country, you most certainly have the right to complain about perceived injustices/flaws within the system in place. It would be interesting to see what effect the simple inclusion of an extra box marked 'none of the above are suitable' on ballot papers would make. Try living in Scotland as an intending Yes voter in the forthcoming referendum and you'll soon see what newspapers have to do with it. The press - and BBC - coverage of the referendum has been 100% biased in favour of the Better Together campaign - until last week when just one of the thirty seven papers on sale here suddenly changed tack (saw the light, some would say). It has, dare I say, been a suspiciously well-organised and secretly funded campaign of public misinformation and fear, with the finger well and truly pointed at Westminster in general and the Tory party in particular. Not a particularly impressive example of democracy in action - and one that has been unable to counter the grassroots campaign of the Yes group.
My point BB is that you have to do something to register that you have a view - I count going to the pollling station and spoiling your ballot paper as a "vote". If you feel really strongly of course you can put yourself up for election - at least you are registering a "care". Those who simply ignore the vote are indicating that they have no desire even to vote against their "worst" candidate - you cannot complain about who gets in if you did not try to stop them. Many of us live in a "safe" seat of one or other party with no hope of changing the outcome - that does not excuse staying at home. Your home country have it right in making voting mandatory (if that sill is the case) I don't think Yorkie is saying papers do not have an influence or effect - he is (like me) objecting to the insinuation that people who have certain opinions can be categorzed as readers of those papers.
Do you think it is not a realistic view? UKIP are not going to be in power and no other party wants a referendum. If you want out of Europe there is actually only one party giving you that option - you may have to swallow a nasty pill Yorkie Funnily enough it is the reason I certainly will not vote Tory in 2015
As I understand it democracy involves the active political participation of broad sections of society. Having said this - does Britain still qualify ? In the 1950s Britains political parties had 4 million members (combined figure) - today the number stands at 500,000 from a larger population. Only 1.3 % of the British population are members of any political party (ie. politically active in terms of imput of ideas) - the figure for Germany shows a similar decline (now 2.2%) - the highest in Europe is Austria with 17%. Theories as to the reasons for this decline in party activity are numerous - maybe others have ideas on this. Simply putting your cross on a piece of paper once every 4 or 5 years deciding between a narrow range of options is not what I call active democracy - if the party is not there that represents your ideas then start your own. Incidentally the countries with the highest levels of political involvement correspond with those scoring highest in the Pisa study (measuring the attainments of School systems throughout Europe) ie. with Austria and Finland at the top.
No Yorkie - being a teacher probably made you a loony lefty There are recognised to be probably four sectors in economics. Primary - agriculture - Britain will never become self sufficient here as we are an overpopulated small island Secondary - manufacturing - we probably do almost as well as we can here but can never compete on a large scale effectively with the high population low wage countries in especially Asia. That is not to say the government should not do more to help niche specialist manufacturing here - every little helps. Tertiary - is the service industry. Activities associated with this sector include retail and wholesale sales, transportation and distribution, entertainment (movies, television, radio, music, theater, etc.), restaurants, clerical services, media, tourism, insurance, banking, healthcare, and law. It is undeniable to say that this is where Britain can still compete and excel. We are World class in banking - people may not like the financial sector and stupidly rail against bankers high bonuses (conveniently ignoring ridiculous wages paid to spoortsmen and entertainers) - but the service sector has prevented Britain slipping back to the economic status of say Spain or Portugal. It earns the country more than any other activity and you harm it at your peril. Remember loony lefty policies - and good social programmes - need money to finance them - there is a saying about not killing the golden goose. Labour have never understood economics so think you can spend spend spend and borrow to fund it. Sad really. Quaternary - consists of intellectual activities. Activities associated with this sector include government, culture, libraries, scientific research, education, and information technology. Again this is an area where we can excel. If governments would only put more money into education for science and information we would stand a chance of maintaining our leading position here - but if we allow the likes of Pfizer to take over our leading research companies we deserve the consequences. The City would survive an EU exit probably - but would be severely hampered. Asian and other capital would need to seek direct access to a market we would no longer be a member of - inevitably a portion of funds would move through Frankfurt and the like. The party that risks that is an extreme risk taker. We need to support the areas in which Britain can excel. Scotland will find that out to its own harm when they vote for independence - they will have no natural advantages.
Of course you can complain about who gets in if you choose not to vote - if a system doesn't allow for acceptable alternatives, you cannot expect people to simply promote that system by having them vote for someone/a party that they do not want. Equally, you cannot tell them that, if they don't like the choices, stand for election yourself - that's a nonsense, not to mention a simple waste of money that they can, in all probability, ill afford. One person standing against the 'might' of established political parties would be pointless - and would probably attract the type of attention reserved for UKIP/BNP who, like it or not, are simply representing the thoughts of a percentage of the population. That actually did happen in Australia some three decades ago when a chip shop owner decided that enough was enough from the 'established' politicians. She started her own Party called One Nation, and called for nothing more than equality of spending of public monies. Her party was largely ignored by the establishment until it polled 23% in an election - then the sniping, lies. misinformation and accusations of racism suddenly arose - from guess where? Btw, yes, Australia still has a system of mandatory - and preferential - voting. In spite of that, the incidence of informal voting is fairly high. Around 6% at the last election, compared to the UK's 0.3%. All is not well there either...
We can agree to disagree on this one BB. For me someone who has not even bothered to vote for what he considers the best of a bad bunch does not deserve others to listen to his moaning when he does not like what he gets. At least if he has voted he has expressed some preference and has a right for others to listen to his complaints. If you did not vote you did not even try to stop anyone. Any fool can sit there and moan but I believe in being as positive as you can be in whatever situation you find yourself in. For me it is one of the failures of our age that too many people fail to take personal responsibility for their situation but blame it all on others - the fat cats, the bankers, the political elite, the unions, the EU , migrants - oh the list of who else's fault it all is is endless. For the Scots: add in the English
Strangely enough - I just came across this..... https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...e-of-the-above-option-for-all-uk-elections-2#
