Spot on Dan - she lives just down the road from me. I live in hope of her banging on my door asking for my vote, all she will get is a tongue lashing she will never forget...I have sent her loads of emails asking her to investigate something on my behalf, not 1 single response. But she used my email address to canvass me a few years ago, she got a suitable response.
To answer the question about voting rights for me living in the EU, I can also vote in the local elections, European ones, but not for government and certainly not for President. Also of course I no longer can vote in the UK. There has been a drive to get English natives onto the local councils to give the ex-pats a voice. When I lived in the UK I was an elected member of our Parish Council for many years, without pay or expenses, and did my best to assist the local population. Our power was minimal as was that of the District Council despite their large budget and countless members of staff. The real power lay with the County Council who had an even larger budget and even more staff members. Regional government was only just arriving on the scene and to my mind was a total waste of money. Knowing many county councillors it became clear that they felt powerless often because of the advice from the officers of the council. This was where the real power lay, with the unelected council officers. I would suggest and do believe that most power at national level lies not with the elected members but with civil servants. Don't blame the MP's so much in general terms. I have known some who have worked long hours and dealt with complaints from the public way beyond the call of duty. This constant drip, drip, drip against democracy only serves to leaves holes in the system that protest groups can use to their advantage.
Has anyone actually bothered to read the UKIP local and european manifestos ? far from racist , far from one policy ponies, I can see why lib lab con are so worried and have started the smear campaign and the untruths ! Yes there are policies I disagree with Ukip on such as there energy policies ,but they are the only party offering a referendum on the EU and to me this is important. They are not advocating stopping immigration as some may believe , merely control it better like the US Aus NZ etc against open door , but for bringing people in with skillsets the country needs ,is that so bad ? Also the misconception that ukip is white middle class is wrong as well as a lot of ethnic groups in the UK also see the need to qualify immigration, hence why there are asian and african ukip members . There is no barrier to join Ukip membership can the same be said for the lib lab con , maybe not ! The quality of debate on this forum is better than the others ,although there are some of the same misconceptions.
I disagree with that mate. UKIP care about the future of the country. Britain will have bombs going off on a regular basis in the future as the muslims try to demand that we all follow there crazy beliefs. I see all the girls from Poland at work who are pregnant. They are all aware how long they have to work here before they are entitled to max benefits. Nine months pay from work and getting housing while British youngsters will never have a chance. Some of them are renting these houses out to others for extra money while they are sharing housing with many of their friends. A four bedroom house near me is shared by a minimum of 12 of them. I dont need to mention the stupid money that the tax payer has to pay into Europe or the national health service that is struggling to cope or extra crime because of them because everyone knows.
Ukip are not offering a referendum on the EU Norway. They simply have a policy to leave it. The only party who say there will be a referendum are the Tories. Farage who is Ukip, they are only a protest group, certainly cares about his well being, not about the country Hoops. Go into a pub when people have had a few and you will hear similar rhetoric. He spends plenty of time in pubs and is clever enough to play upon the doubts that he hears expressed.
For a number of years some towns here have celebrated on this day the abolition of slavery. Today there has been a protest about a National Front mayor who refused to take part. It seems that he does not deem slavery to have been associated with the French. Many policies of the NF follow this line, including somethings that sound as if they come out of Germany in the 1930s. Marine le Penn is actively courting UKIP, saying that they have similar values. Ukip are doing their best to appear to be keeping her at arms length, but there is a striking similarity when you see the policies.
The voters in France have a completely different opinion to the majority over here. They seem to vote with their head without worrying about being racist
Dave Cameron will not give a referendum if re elected in 2015 ( you saw it here first lol) UKIP is most certainly not a protest vote it is much bigger than that now. http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...1398869254/EuroManifestoLaunch.pdf?1398869254 that is there euro manifesto they also have a local one for local by elections! for the record I think UK would be better off without the EU maybe a trade alliance but not full integration , much like Norway has done .
The only reason that the NF are doing well in the polls at present is because of the woeful President they elected to office, and the people are looking for a protest group who will win a few seats here and there, but will never form a government.
The English Defence League are also promoting Farage on their facebook page & urging parties like the BNP not to stand against them. What I don't understand is how a party can sit in the European Parliament not doing anything - not voting on anything because they don't believe in that parliament, but still accept salaries ( 7,000 Euros for a normal member of that Parliament, per month) from European funding.
I have read their manifesto Norway and I am afraid you too have misconceptions. They have two actual policies - to exit the EU (with all the immigration paraphernalia that goes with that) and to bring back grammar schools. You are wrong about them offering a referendum - they are not - they would simply take us out on the basis that if they won a general election on the issue that would give them a mandate. Only the Tories are offering a referendum - in 2017 if the Tories are in power. They want to reduce taxes all over the place - at a cost dozens of times what would be saved on EU membership - oh and on cutting foreign aid - not that they are racist of course. If they have policies they are a joke and what any party not expecting to be in power will offer. Join MY party - we will abolish ALL taxes on everyone and ask millionniares to fund what is needed for hte good of the country. Sounds good - vote LeoParty
We were part of EFTA - an early alternative to the EEC - a free trade agreement with 6 other European nations that did not want to be in the original EEC. It did not work. Iceland and Switzerland joined it later but all the others left to join the EU - except Norway so those 3 pus Liechtenstein are now EFTA.
No Norway everyone knows there will not be a referendum in 2015 under the Tories - it would be in 2017
As always I enjoy the political debates on this football forum (many don't) - conducted with style and honesty and very little unpleasantness - and this time we have our resident Haha comedian too. This all goes to reinforce what I said earlier - that I consider UKIP dangerous to Democracy. Despite Norway's protestations they ARE a one issue party - they drop in a few other teasers to pretend otherwise but there is no substance or thought behind them What makes them dangerous is they appeal to popular instincts and herd behaviour. Europe has never been popular in this Island Nation - we used to look down on them considering ourselves superior. we did not want to join their club back in the 50s and neither the Tories nor Labour were much in favour till the 70s. Ted Heath was strongly pro Europe and he arm twisted his party into membership. Latterly Labour were converted as they saw the power of being able to spend millions of other people's money - nothing much new there then. Only the Liberals have been consistently pro for ever. UKIP would take us out of Europe and leave us there. They know it is popular with the people but in a democracy sometimes people need to be led and to do the harder alternatives against their base instinct. People are being fooled into thinking that if we leave Europe our problems would be solved. The reverse is actually the case but nobody is listening as the British xenophobia is now rampant
general election in 2015!! mandate of the people etc cameron will say anything to get in but he will not give us a referendum on europe . I see rising amount of germans getting pissed of with forking out to pay for other countries , also what about the economic debacle of greece and possibly italy can we keep affording to bale others out , surely charity begins at home , we have to sort our own house out first , a bit like Norway has done and is doing . Also you mention Efta that worked well until many countries were seduced by the euro dream , a bit like ukraine , and look where thats got them ! The major thing that still gets me is that most of these countries have had a vote whether to go in or not , we are one of a very few that have not. If there was a vote for the UK ref europe tomorrow and staying in won then so be it , but it would be nice to given the opportunity to decide. I thought we used to have a democratic society but when governments think they know best and ride roughshod over the populace we cease to be that democracy.
I'm more worried that the mass of ignorance & bigotry in this country will ride roughshod over government and industry who, I believe, in this case do know better, and force us out of the EU with no plan B other than: 1. we try to set up a "trading agreement" with the EU, an organisation we have just put two fingers up to, or 2. we try to reestablish contacts with the Commonwealth, the organisation we put two fingers up to in the 1970s and most of whose members (including India & Australia) have gone their separate ways or 3. we become the 52nd state of the US always assuming they want or need to trade with us! To paraphrase Dickens, then "Democracy, she would be a Ass"!
Great debate people - I will not contribute any further at the moment as I have been out in Bandit Country and been on the drink, so best not comment. Keep the debate going and bless us that we all support the finest football club on gods good earth. Love you all X X
Cameron could not back out of his pledge on a 2017 referendum. He weasled his way out of the one on the Lisbon Treaty but this time his promise is absolute and unequivocal - if he leads the Tories after 2015 there will be a referendum. I dont much like him but he has backed himself into a corner this time. EFTA did not work at all which is why we left it. We are not part of the Euro bale out fund. Charity begins at home is a nasty phrase that I abhor - charity should be there to help people in need not used to support xenophobic reasons not to halp starving people around the world. We voted to stay in Europe in a referendum in 1975. You cannot have referenda every few years until the "Noes" win it although I accept it has changed so much since 1975 that perhaps one is due now. Norway: Governments are elected (that is the Democratic bit) to Govern - that is: to make the right decisions. We do not have government by referendum as Switzerland do - thank goodness. I dread to think what horrendous policies would be put in place if we did - racism and homophobia would no doubt be rife. We certianly would not have gay marriages - would that be good? I thought we used to have a democratic society but when governments think they know best and ride roughshod over the populace we cease to be that democracy.[/QUOTE]
