So, as a mod who should be setting an example, you are happy to call people "morons" on here then? Just so as we all know. If that's really how you feel,perhaps you SHOULD consider doing the right thing.
But vetch whilst the moron thing may have been a bit strong, but to label people racist because they are from a political party is a bit harsh as well.
In that case, feel free to complain to Minxy or BRB, and if they feel I have done wrong (which I probably have) then I will gladly step down. I won't suck up, or pussy foot around anyone. And if they are quick enough to insult, then I expect them to be man enough to take it. Whether from myself or others, which is why, when I started, I said, that if anyone has any issues with something another member has said, report it, if you reply in kind, which in my opinion, is in everyone's right, within reason of course, I won't get involved. My role is not to set an example, I prefer to see my role as one which is there to stop people openly abusing others to a point where they find they are no longer enjoying it here. If two people want to abuse each other, then they are grown ups, but as long as it does not get to a point where it affects others, at that points they will be told to take it to PM's or stop. This is not a day care nursery, the people that use this forum are adults, and I will treat them as such. Thats the way I am, it is how I mod, and for those who take exception, then there are ways to voice your disapproval, and if need be, I would be happy to step down.
As a mod,who by definition in place to keep order,how can he justify calling anyone a moron.? If he wanted to protest at a so called racist remark,then he could have done so WITHOUT the need to use the word moron. Taking this to it's logical conclusion,I can now call anyone a moron,a fking moron,or any other insult I may choose,and one of our mods will be powerless to chastise me. The word racist is now so commonly used,that to criticise anyone for using it has become pointless. The word is thrown around like confetti at a wedding. He needs to apologise for it's use. That's just my opinion,of course.
I don't need to complain to either Minxy or BRB. If you take on the role of mod,you have to abide by rules that have been set in place. Insults such as use of the word moron,are not acceptable,or at least,that is what I am led to believe. Now,if insults are acceptable,let us all know so we can indulge,freely,when so moved.
I probably could have done it without the use of the term moron, but as someone who will be voting for UKIP, and with a friend who is running for UKIP, I take his comments as insulting. Just because you find the term racist as common, that it has become pointless, does not mean I feel the same way, the term racist can ruin a persons career. A great example of how being classed as racist, or being found to be racist, can change things, look at the guy who in America made racist remarks and has since been banned from the NFL (?). Being classed as a racist is still something that can change things, its not as common, and pointless as you seem to think. If it was, he would never have been banned, being a racist is, and always will, make an individual a coward. I hate racists. In regards to your "logical conclusion", then no as a logical conclusion, you cannot, as it all depends on if a) he has first of all insulted you, b) if not, and he is insulted. If for example, Valley (sorry valley ) called you an idiot, and you called him a moron in return. I wouldn't get involved. If it continued past that point, and got nasty, then I would ask that you continued your issue in private. If for example, Valley called you an idiot, and you told me you were not happy with it, hadn't insulted him back, then I would get involved. If for example, you called Valley a moron, and Valley didn't like it, but didn't respond, then I would get involved. That is how I mod. Like I said, im no babysitter. If Honky apologises for his statement which unfairly tars all UKIP as a nasty bunch of racist xenophobes, then I will apologise for calling him a moron. But.....if his view is genuinely that all of UKIP are a bunch of nasty xenophobes, then I will stand by my opinion, that I think he is a moron for having that view.
I tried to stay out of this as my intention was only to create healthy debate, happy with it thus far to the point of the above quoted comment. The papers are owned by people who are linked to the main three parties, as such there could be a tendency for biased reporting. The views expressed by the national media is never trustworthy when politics is concerned, for instance we see a party that giving the other some jitters so can we expect the papers that lean towards those parties to be fair? Case in point is UKIP being labelled racists but coverage of Labour's self confessed Nazi supporter in Milton Keynes is kept quiet.
There's no "probably" about it,swans,it was over the top reaction. You are surely better than that. Incidentally,I am well versed in racism,having lived many years in black Africa,even married a black girl. I have been called racist by blacks,all male incidentally,more times than you could count. So much so that I came to the conclusion that there is no fool like a black (male) fool. I'm sure someone will call me a racist for writing that. The word racist is used so indiscriminately,it really has been diminished. Anyway,forget all about my protest. Sorry for having made it.
For a long time I've felt like I don't want to vote, but it goes against my urge to take part in the democratic process. If only the politicians had the balls to allow for a 'None of the above' option on the ballot paper. It's not as indiscriminate as a spoiled paper and it gives people an option to attend the poling station so they are counted as caring (not apathetic), but didn't feel a party represented them. Then we won't have the "only 30% people could be bothered" patter if 60-70% turn up and say they cared enough to attend and didn't feel represented.
Sorry Vetch, I am better than that, but I do hate the term racist with a passion when its flung about so easily. It is used much too casually, and it can have horrible consequences when thrown. The term racist is used far too frequently for even the littlest of things, even things that are not racist and as you said, its use has since diminished, but being labelled a racist can still be detrimental to an individual, it hasn't diminished in that regards.
I would never vote UKIP. I simply do not trust the people I see speaking for them including their leader Farage. Many do seem racist, Lenny Henry was recently told to 'go home'. Farage is two faced, his wife earns a fortune from the public purse and is GERMAN. There is a litany of comical 'errors' where UKIP candidates are removed from the list. Surprisingly non of the mud sticks. One of their interesting policies is a standard rate of income tax, a multi-millionaire would pay the same tax rate as a call centre worker on minimum wage. Another would drastically cut back union power, already decimated by Thatcher. Under UKIP it is estimated a further 2 million public sector workers would lose their jobs, the biggest employer in Wales is the public sector UKIP is playing to the public's very real fears and the other parties are not taking those fears seriously. One of the problems is that people are unwilling to vote or to get involved with local political parties. Parties are not very welcoming and those who are involved. Participation in election stands around 50% locally. For me the answer is not UKIP, the answer is to get ordinary folk involved in politics. I trust the judgement of the people who live around me far more than any politician.
Im on the far left of politics and a member of the labour party (not new labour old tory party) and i would never vote for a racist party like UKIP are. They are nothing more than The BNP in posh clothing.
Swansalona – if you refer back to my OP I didn’t use the word “all” but I admit I did call the UKIP “a nasty bunch of racist xenophobes” a small but important distinction in meaning – consequently I would not deny that it is possible to be a member of the UKIP and not be racist. Look, I admit maybe my wording in the OP is a bit strong, but hey look at most political banter/debate, however I am sorry if it has caused offence to you and your mate. However I do feel strongly that the policies of the UKIP are inherently racist and divisive, I feel that if elected enacting those policies will be far more offensive to the millions of people who will be subjected to them, than my description of UKIP on this forum, that’s just my subjective opinion. I don’t think that makes me an ignorant moron, it just means we have different opinions.
Is there any way we can speed up the process of becoming the United States of Europe ? I don't see much difference in being controlled from London,Brussels or Washington DC....neither are local to me, and it's still a bunch of people who are looking out for themselves.
Had you have explained it like that, I would never have called you an ignorant moron. So I will apologise for calling you an ignorant moron, it was purely down to the way you expressed that opinion, which I did not like. The policies themselves will create debate, some will claim its racist, some will claim its not, me personally I don't see the problem with it at all. I don't see the problem with having a points based immigration system. I don't see a problem with making immigrants have to support themselves for 5 years before being able to claim benefits. (pay in to get out like we have to do) I don't see a problem with us pulling out of the EU and start to actually run our country ourselves again. Not all their policies are ideal, but then that's the same with every party, but their main policies are something I totally agree with. I am fed up of the do-gooders letting things get out of hand, such as the recent issue with subway cutting pork from a number of their stores, because a number of Islamic communities complained. Whether in Islamic area's or not, this is Britain, pork is something we eat, and if I went into a store in Britain, I would expect them to serve pork. And as someone who used to live in London, very near to a Muslim community, had I gone to a store there, I would most likely not be able to purchase pork, which I think is disgusting. Yes by all means, serve a Halal option, but don't take away what we like to suit those who don't like it. Things like this seem to be the norm now, we are folding to the minorities, because we are too afraid to say no. And thats one thing I like about UKIP, they are not afraid to offend the PC brigade that have run this country into a shambles. And before anyone says that is racist, Islam is a religion, not a race. As for immigrants, one thing I want to see is that when immigrants come to our country, they blend into our lifestyle, I don't like the Muslim communities that you see popping up (I use that as an example as I lived near one a few years ago in London) it should be mixed communities, which goes for any immigrant. Problem is, if anyone has the temerity to mention something, they are too quickly labelled a racist. If I move to another country, I expect to blend in to their lifestyle, speak the language (as best I can), follow the rules, be like them, so why is it so wrong for me to expect the same in return? UKIP are not the long term answer, far from it, but we need someone to start ruffling feathers in the other parties for them to pull their heads out of their arses and start doing their bloody jobs, and stop ****ing this country up. And talking of the stupidity of the PC brigade, wasn't there a thing not so long ago about a young school girl being told she couldn't wear a help for heroes band because it may cause offence? Who does it offend exactly?
A vote for Tory or Labour is a vote for further destruction of wealth for everyone but the wealthy in the UK Both are owned by the City of London. is there any party that promises to address the criminal banking system and the BBC. The two biggest threats to the people of Britain, the banks are robbing you and the BBC denies to the public important information needed to make the right decisions. Protests are being held in Ireland against the state broadcaster because people are sick of the lies and cover-ups. BBC covered up for *****philes, spouts propaganda world wide, fakes news reports, fabricates documentaries like the Panorama one on Syria. Labour got you into war, the Tories kept you in it and tried to get you into another and are fueling the civil war in Syria.
swanselona, I agree with the points system for immigration and also agree with paying in before taking out. I don't actually know the current laws or policy on this. However, there are plenty of UK citizens, born-and-bred British, that are quite happy NOT to pay into a system before taking out. Some are even in my own family. There seems to be a massive eroding of the philosophy of 'you get out what you put in' and people today feel they deserve a payout just because they are British. Do I think that immigration is the cause of all of our problems? No I don't. The media have a lot to answer for. The massive American influence you see in music and TV melts the minds of our youngsters (I'm only 34 and can't see what gansta-rap is all about - is it an anti-establishment protest or just singing about guns and ****? The mind boggles). Immigration over the decades has made this country the diverse melting pot that it is. Many families coming over here have stronger family values than some of our own natives and the work ethic of the eastern Europeans that I've met is far greater than a lot of Brits. There will always be the few divisive few from any society that will disrupt and put us off kilter and we need the right people to correct it. Unfortunately, politicians who have never had a proper job and are only there to hear their own voice will not fix this. And why do we need so many? Having a massive global financial crisis was the start, caused by predominantly the banks but also by the UK citizens (remember, the debt held by these banks was from those citizens who chose to live beyond their means) has stirred up emotions in the UK higher than I've ever seen them and it always seems like we need someone to hate or blame. Why is it we always play the victim rather than taking hold of our own destiny and personal responsibility? I think the issues need to be looked at holistically and also introspectively. I believe we predominantly live in an accepting society and I think the focus on one problem to get votes will cause more damage than it's worth. Let's get back to rewarding hard work and success, helping those that fail, and not tolerating those that want to have an easy ride off the state.
So Swanselona you agree with UKIP's main policies, so thats franchising out the NHS to private companies, increasing spending on our armed forces by 40%, putting in place a standard 27% tax rate for everyone from cleaners to business executives, scrapping incapacity benefit for those unable to work. Perhaps its the attraction of Farage who 'despises' the EEC claiming 2 million in expenses or the fact that the three UKIP members for Europe have the worst attendance of any other MEP's. Its convienient to scapegoat 'Muslims' or 'Islamists' as causing all the problems, stereo typing all Muslims as being the same. Totally denying the valuable contribution made to Britain and its economy. Many Seiks and Hindu's suffer because of this stereotype, Asians all being the same to the blinkered. A UKIP candidate asked how Mo Farah could represent Britain for goodness sake. Its rare that I agree with Dai on anything but UKIP are a racist party, the BNP dressed up in fancy clothes, if the cap fits wear it. Blaming Muslims for all the troubles in the economy is something an ignorant moron would do.
