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OT War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Ivan Dobsky, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    More of these so called terrorists. Note how they chant their region name and not Russia.
    [video=youtube;75dlup0WXGY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=75dlup0WXGY[/video]
     
    #181
  2. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Your first part doesn't relate to what I've said. I never mentioned the neo-cons at the end of World War 2? In fact I said their real dominance and threat really came into effect towards the late 60's. I also didn't call Britain evil, nor did I say that the US took over their mantle after World War 2.

    It was clear that a new polarisation of the West vs Communism was there before, during, but particularly after World War 2. I also appreciate the U.S. did what it did to secure its interests in that matter following World War 2. But my point is about the ideology, ie. the methods/tactics/actions which I feel became extremist in nature as a result of the neo-conservative movement much later (which believed the Democratic, liberal ideology you mention had failed or was failing in the decades post-world war 2).

    As for your last bit, I think that modern Russia and modern Islamic nations are what they are, in part due to a reaction to the situations the world has imposed on them. Democracy is only a democracy if "the right guy" is in power, or the dictator is only a dictator if he happens not to serve our interests (Pervaiz Musharaff a prime example). Through my life experiences - particularly in the middle east - the vast majority of the world WANT democracy. They want to live in a free and just society. However their perception/belief/hope of whether that is achievable is completely different. As for me, I wish we looked after our own affairs and let others look after theirs. Each to their own as long as it doesn't interfere or impose in others. A bit of an idealistic outlook on my part, but if we didn't have one, what the hell are we posting on this thread for.
     
    #182
  3. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    This is the crux of what drives me insane but as Obama would say "lets be clear" government is not calling the shots it never has been, it's a merrygoround of corporate then political and then back to corporate. You only need to look at the appointments, from the fed to FDA and else where.

    A great leader can speak to the people and doesn't need to resort to the antics of a corrupt cabal always behind politics.They always get murdered though.
    Caezar and JFK were murdered for the same reasons.
     
    #183
  4. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    You can add Yitzak Rabin to them two <ok>

    Whereas Obama is the biggest damp squib since I can remember. A guy who's more duplicitous than his predecessor. So much hope pissed away. Blair being the other in modern times.
     
    #184
  5. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Yitzak Rabin good one, mind you though the people were not exactly loving him, except his supporters. He did good things but there are clouds above the official narrative. From what I gather the PLO were decimated in Lebanon and were offered by the Israelis the chance to control Palestine, given how the PLO conducted it's self I suspect it, as do some historians, were planted by Israel and in part controlled, not as in directly ordered but put in place and recognised so as to have some real input to Palestine's leadership. A kind of organised opposition. Rabin was also called bone breaker for brutal handling of protests in the first intifada and the IDF killed a lot of people under his watch. I think he softened thereafter and did some good work, still can't believe Sharon and Obama have Nobel peace Prizes, the award is a joke


    Obama's just carried on the same project at a faster rate. No major nation perpetuates on the whims of individual presidents. Only Russia seems to not fit this as it is more akin to gang rule, gangs in politics police army ect ect. It is not a coherent structure for sustained international dominance.

    China the US UK and all the other European member states with their fake left parties. in the UK, Labour got you into war with lies and the Tories and lib dems tried to get you into another war with lies against Syria. How are these parties any different? They are not, the same people pull the strings and the intelligence apparatus is an entity unto it's self with it's own agendas.
     
    #185
  6. Garlic Klopp

    Garlic Klopp Well-Known Member

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    The fact remains that despite the problems in Syria and the Ukraine you can bet your bottom dollar the papers will be full of who appeared on Britains Got Talent. The rags know how to report on the "big issues". Oh, there will also be an article on Kardishians' big arse.

    Walking dreamlike into another war.
     
    #186
  7. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget the fake Panorama documentary too on Syria recently, watch it and tell me that **** is real. You will be shocked by how badly it is done. BBC have been getting a lot of questions, people have been emailing them and posting replies on blogs. Lying sacks of ****.

    Read Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky.

    I can't shake the feeling that Ukraine is a distraction form something much bigger the US are up to.
     
    #187
  8. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    Thanks for the honest answer, i think our views of America are very much alike.
     
    #188
  9. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Ukraine's PM has blamed the country's security services for failing to stop violence in the southern city of Odessa that left more than 40 people dead.

    Arseniy Yatsenyuk told the BBC there would be "full, comprehensive and independent investigation". Like the investigation into the Snipers?

    Mr Yatsenyuk said of the Odessa violence: "I personally blame the security service and law enforcement office for doing nothing to stop this crackdown." After he sent his forces to attack the place and also fails to remember that he and his cronies criminalised these people's identity, ITS SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULTapparently and not those under maidan and therefor US control.

    BBC the voice of far right racist groups, Jihad fighters and war criminals.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27274028

    The fact the US told them to crack down on the east in order to retain support and get loans of billions puts responsibility for these deaths on the US and IMF.

    Western MSM completely avoid assigning blame to the nationalists of killing nearly 40 people even though there is video of them torching the building with Molotovs. Right Sector carried these murders and they are part of government.
    http://rt.com/news/156652-odessa-fire-mainstream-media/
     
    #189
  10. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Maidan aka "peaceful protestors" <doh> caught in action at the burning of 39 eastern Ukrainians. This guy shooting at the people trapped in the building and in the following video he is talking on the phone saying that he and his people are unarmed and facing armed activists.
    [video=youtube;ypnu0vteNto]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ypnu0vteNto[/video]



    Another video of the same man shows him speaking on the phone passionately arguing that he and his people are unarmed, while having to confront armed anti-government protesters. The man introduces himself as sotnik Mykola (&#8220;sotnik&#8221; is what Maidan group leaders in Kiev call themselves) He also says he was wounded in the leg by protesters, although he doesn&#8217;t look hurt in the footage.
    [video=youtube;VgiTb3ed65w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VgiTb3ed65w[/video]


    both vids work on here if the ones above dont
    http://rt.com/news/156664-odessa-fire-radicals-shoot/


    Shooting at people trying to escape a fire, or rather burning people in a building like that is something the SS liked to do.


    Apparently the US say there is nothing to read into regarding the head of the CIA, John Brennan visiting the coup government in Kiev.


    This is what BBC say today about the 39 murders, this is all.
    Clashes the lie goes. There were about 40 people and far more maidan outside as in the video, shooting at them as they try to escape a fire but the BBC says they got those wounds in "clashes"

    And at the bottom of today's Daily Ukraine BBC propaganda piece is this beauty
    Also notice Mr Yanukovych has had his name legally changed by the BBC to Pro Moscow Mr Yanukovych. <doh>
     
    #190

  11. Ivan Dobsky

    Ivan Dobsky GC Thread Terminator

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    Hitler never invaded Sunderland, but another fascist tried to last year.
     
    #191
  12. Ivan Dobsky

    Ivan Dobsky GC Thread Terminator

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    Afuckingmen to that.
     
    #192
  13. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Seconded<ok>
    You only need to be able to defend yourself

    The problem's are though that the cornerstone of NATO "defence" is to put it bases all over the world and intelligence services are supposed to mostly ply their trade abroad.

    NATO expansion forces those outside NATO to look to expand just as one country gets a military it's neighbours have to get a military. Completely self serving.

    The fact a certain small group of people make hundreds of billions out of it is merely coincidental<whistle>
     
    #193
  14. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    #194
  15. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Odessa survivor claims people were strangled and beaten to death with chains after they escaped the fire.

    Good auld Nationalists.


    @Diego, apparently over 45% of people in Ukraine are either ethnic Russian or Russian speaking Ukrainians. Not 100% on that but it seems to be so, the world portrayed a few thousand maidan activists as the population of Ukraine, and people swallowed that ****.
    49 million people and not even a quarter of million took to the streets in Kiev and were represented by the media to be ALL OF UKRAINE
     
    #195
  16. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    @Milk.

    on the EU. Here's something funny, as in peculiar, not haha funny.

    There are 7 layers to the EU, the only elected layer is the parliament, the rest us unelected. The European Parliament cannot introduce or pass legislation.

    So the EU is completely run by unelected people, so... how do people have input into such a system? They DONT
     
    #196
  17. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    BBC actually reporting on Ukraine's Nazis. Even admitted these were the ones doing the actual fighting with the police.

    According to the nationalists.
    Russians and Jews are destructive political and economical forces. This is not right sector, this is Maidan we are talking about here. This is what they think. They like many ideas of national socialism "We want to sort of be like Hitler" <yikes>

    What is truly messed up is that there was an Israeli military unit in Kiev during the protests<doh>

    Svoboda, the scary thing is, they control the ministry of defence.<yikes> and 3 other government posts.
    [video=youtube;5SBo0akeDMY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5SBo0akeDMY[/video]
     
    #197
  18. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    The nationalists. Please watch this, this is what is happening in Ukraine.

    It's like the Nazi Brownshirts all over again.

    [video=youtube;NKuDzXAgdf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NKuDzXAgdf4[/video]
     
    #198
  19. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    4 Star US general Wesley Clark talking about a meeting with another general.
    Upon meeting the same general a few weeks later Clark says
    This was over a decade ago. How things have panned out back up what he says in the interview, Look at Sudan now and Syria. Russia hurt the US over Syria, destroyed it's position as the moral power, Ukraine is just a pawn. US nukes will now be pointed at Russia from within Ukraine.

    Remind me again how the US felt about Russian Nukes 90 miles away in Cuba?

    This interview was years ago.
    [video=youtube;9RC1Mepk_Sw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
     
    #199
  20. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    #200

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