The mind boggled, how do people keep swallowing this ****. tbh though CNN and fox have shed half their viewers in the past couple of years. people are also wide to the BBC, they have been inundated with complains about their fake Syrian documentary.
NATO declares Russia an enemy. Marvelous. Russia and China now holding joint Naval exercises. Ukrainian draft. I guess it was time for another war after all, the war on terror is at an end, a new enemy is needed by NATO to justify it's very existence.
US NGO NDD. Funder of the Ukrainian coup [video=youtube;SEcZFgSnVP0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEcZFgSnVP0&feature=player_detailpage[/video] another on US regime change. [video=youtube;mLE7Bswz9G8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mLE7Bswz9G8[/video]
Imagine the Russians came to New York to back the Occupy movement, and paid the movement to bring down the US government, the whitehouse would go ballistic. In the US the law prevents donations from foreigners towards election campaigns. US gov funded NDD put 5 billion into Ukrainian politics by funding several nationalist movements. Go ****ing figure.
Listen to US reporters grill the lying sack of **** that is Jan Psaki of the state department over the leaked call of the US discussing who will be in the new Ukrainian government. Reporters are having none of her lies. [video=youtube;jW1WDbDX7wE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW1WDbDX7wE&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
**** me, 2 Ukrainian helicopters shot down. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27250026 note the helicopters and army were on "anti terrorist" operations, so Eastern Ukrainians acting on the same principles the Maidan acted are now terrorists. not everything they regurgitate as fact, is "kiev has said" as if Kiev government has any legitimacy in being a valid source of information. The BBC were slating the nationalists as extremist antisemites in 2012 and now is their mouthpiece Am I missing something? Where is the phony outrage now that Kiev are sending tanks planes and helicopters against civilians. please log in to view this image Ukrainian army destroy 9 "Rebel" checkpoints. call them rebels and it's cool to murder them.
Whoever controls the piper calls the tune. Public opinion, world events, wars are dictated by the media. You control the media, you control the world. The problem is that unfortunately non-English speaking nations will never get the upper hand as far as media spin and media power is concerned. They just don't get it, while the U.S, EU and the west generally are super-slick at it. They have it down to a fine art that they have crafted over the last 25 years. Watch a film called Wag the Dog (a bit sensationalist but pretty much on the mark) There really is so much damning information on some of the news reports coming out, they really should be blowing apart public opinion. But it won't see mainstream because it's not a game the likes of Russia are very savvy at. I've often thought this about other international affairs but I'm getting to the point where I'm becoming indifferent towards it. The world is **** sometimes, and sadly those causing the **** represent us and we are all complicit in it. Keep it up Sisu
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27259614 Plenty of killing of "Rebels" going on atm in Ukraine. You have civilians standing in front of tanks. Where's the ****ing douche bags who were talking about Russians shooting civilians I said it before the protests were over in Kiev, that if the opposition get power and then face opposition to their rule, that they would brutally put down any resistance and be far more violent than the previous berkut, low and behond they are sending the army into population centres. Strangely NATO and the UN are very ****ing quiet, where are all the politicians now when it comes to civilians being killed.? No Nuland handing oout candy in Sloviansk. The BBC say the situation is unclear, they were never uncertain about events in Kiev or uncertain when regurgitating the coup government's words. But they are uncertain when the Ukrainian army, full of newly recruited nationalists, and paid for by the IMF as the country is broke, money's gotta come from somewhere don't it, and Ukraine has **** all, they are unclear when the army is attacking populated areas. What a coincidence. Civilians defend themselves, when the Ukrainian army kills them the coup government says "the "rebels" were hiding behind human shields" This is the exact same bullshit Israel uses when they go into the West Bank and kill civilians.
Some pictures CNN and the BBC wont show. please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image If Kiev do not get control of the East the IMF will not give them that $17 billion
38 people dead, anti maidan protestors camp was surrounded they retreated into the building and the pro maidan gang burned the ****ing thing. 8 died jumping from windows, the rest from smoke inhalation. These nationalists are scum. http://rt.com/news/156480-odessa-fire-protesters-dead/ I don't give a ****. Putin has all the reasons to go into Eastern Ukraine now. I don't care if the devil has to stop this ****, as long as it gets stopped. I swear my blood boils when I read that the US calls the government response "proportionate and reasonable".
Don`t get caught up in names Sisu, "Rebel" is a word used for anybody going against the present authority, we all know some "rebellions" have been good and needed, some have been bad, but the word means the same in either case. The name "Terrorist" is very emotive and all depends on your standpoint, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Having said that, the press can make a huge difference on public opinion by the way they use these words/names.
Sisu, forget the science thread (i am only playing devils advocate there and will continue to do so), i am genuinly interested in this and know very little. What is the proportion/percentage of people in the Ukraine that Russia are trying to protect?
I don't actually know the numbers tbh. It's about half the country. East and South with West and North mainly nationalists though there will be some on either side in each region. It is millions of people lets put it that way, millions who have had their language banned, TV banned and identity criminalised. Kieve tried to step back from that at the advice of the US for public opinion's sake. it doesn't change the facts. So many were saying oh Crimea will suffer as part of Russia, well Crimea is now avoiding a bloodbath thanks to Russia, Crimea is not penniless as it surely would be as part of Ukraine, also they would be now facing attacks by the Ukrainian army. Crimea is infinitely better off right now. Eastern Ukraine proves that. The ****ing outcry over what turned out to be maidan snipers in the end, yet the media now justifies the slaughter of eastern Ukrainians. Since Russia embarrassed the US and made Obama look like a **** over Syria, the russiaphobia and russia bashing went through the roof, coincidence? naw. Just read this BBC article. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27265927 The wording is not so clever but idiots who already believe this is all Russia's doing swallow it hook line and sinker. Even the burning of the anti maidan protestors in a building, the BBC says both sides were throwing petrol bombs. the truth is these protestors were in a camp with tents ect, they were surrounded by maidan militia sent by kiev and were forced to retreat into the building which Maidan burned to the ground killing 31 I think the official number is. Civil wars happen, what is driving me ****ing nuts is the ****ing propaganda ans lies. America is the true evil the world faces today, like it or lump it they have caused the majority of civil wars around the world since WWII, never mind their invasions and proxy wars. the UN is the second threat. Power throughout the world is being redistributed to very few hands. it all leads to one world government and one world army, this is the UN's million. Not some conspiracy, they have signed documents stating these goals. All those futuristic moves of a one world dominating power and so on, that's the UN and NATO today. conspiracy theory waters down the facts. The UN's goals are one world government and a world standing army under the control of the UN secretary general. These are official plans. Look at the US, imagine sitting at home with the wife and kids and armed soldiers in full kit force you out of your home at gun poin, this happened in Boston after the "bombing". 3 people were killed so you might think that was justified, well 10 people were killed in Boston that weekend in violent crime so where was the lock down over those murders? Boston was from start to finish a martial law exercise. so with all of this, the CiA the NSA the wars the lies, why do people think Russia is the enemy of freedom, the US is quite clearly the biggest war mongering nation the earth has ever seen, and all that achieved in only 50 years. Russia could only hope to match the US in propaganda and crimes. But hey, if you are willing to turn a blind eye to what the UK gov has been doing for several hundred years and are still doing, then why would you care about what other governments do. Some irony, the US and Uk intelligence services murdered the Polish president in the 40s because he was going to bring the Katyn massacre to the fore and there was no way the allies were going to allow the alliance to be jeopardized. You won't read that in history books, nor that grandaddy bush helped the Nazis, would both Bush presidents have been so if that was in history books, so you see even education is actually propaganda.
Although I sympathise with the sentiment, I think you have to be careful to generalise. The vast proportion of everyday Americans are decent and respect the values they stand for. I've met plenty and the vast majority are decent folk who are friendly and want the best. The trouble is two fold, firstly in terms of foreign politics, the country as a whole is very insular. The average American knows little of what's going on outside their State let alone outside their country. Secondly, the right wing neo-cons seem to have set the agenda in American politics since the late 60's/early 70's (Nixon onwards). Prior to that, the American goverments were idealistic rather than ideologists. They believed in fair foreign policy. For example their reaction to the British (Eden) and Israeli invasion of Egypt, and the American's well known castigation of it. It's been coincidental - the control of world politics was through Britain's foreign policy in the first half of the century, and just as our unjust colonial grip was coming to an end, the American global agenda started with the neo-conservatives. It is unfortunate that one just happened to follow the other. As for the UN, you can see here exactly the power and double standards of propaganda. We claim to promote democracy and yet have an organisation where 5 countries have the ultimate decision on ALL world events. So much for majority rule and a just democracy! Finally, on democracy. I believe in it passionately. BUT it seems to be, being used as a justification for carrying out the very atrocities that dictators and totalitarian governments commit. It's ok to kill because we're a democracy. I've never got that argument. So what if you're a democracy if what you're committing is injustice and murder? It's like the BNP using the Union Flag to justify their racist actions. But the real crux of the matter, what is really damning about our leaders often defending actions by saying "it's ok we're a democracy" - they are highlighting an important point - just how much of a democracy are we? A pretty impotent one imo. Can you see the same effect that public opinion and protest had on Nixon during the Vietnam War happening now? Like **** it would. The western governments' media machines as well as their amended political processes have learned lessons over the last 50 years, and from lessons like Vietnam.
Hmmm. I think you may have somewhat naïve with both the intent and the impact of US hegemony on world affairs since 1945. The idea that the US started out as a benign, idealistic force when it took the world superpower torch from evil Britain is very Oliver Stone/ Hollywood schmaltz, if truth be told. The US knew exactly what it was doing when it took over the mantle at the end of WWII, and it was a planned, cold decision to bankrupt the UK and, effectively, seize it's assets despite the pleadings of the Keynes and the Labour government otherwise. Their reasoning was that they (a Democratic, liberal administration, not a neo-con one) didn't want a soft-Socialist government to be a success in the western hemisphere. The US has been calling the shots, and not in some misguided, well-intentioned way, since the Forties, and to pretend that this wasn't an imperial programme every bit as intended as Britain's and France's is tosh on par with that rubbish that was written that Britain obtained its empire by a series of accidents. No it didn't - it took advantage of events in a dynamic strategy, and the US has done the same by managing the outcomes of every event, instigated by them or not, since they assumed the mantle on world #1. That said, I'd rather live in a US dominated world than a Soviet or Islamic one. At least until we don't have a choice when China takes over.
Worth going back in history on this very subject. Before the "orange revolution" in Ukraine was +13% of GDP per year. U.S. boycotted a legitimate election but not according to yes that's right the same people who just took over Ukraine, President Kuchma decided not to bring the country to a conflict and left. The "orange" revolutionaries doubled the national debt of Ukraine. Got voted out because of authoritarian leadership and get this corruptly close ties with Russian business as well as directions on how to get deeper into debt by the US. So they get voted out, and lo and behold the US are again backing them in a violent coup after funding their parties via the NDD NGO since they were last voted out. Now what is happening in the east, an uprising of civilians being met with tanks planes helicopters and soldiers, isn't that supposedly what they went into Libya for. It is not ony the army, Right sector and maidan activists are also involved in this killing going on. Treble, check Noam Chomsky on what the US has done around the world since WWII. They have caused millions of deaths though their foreign policy and intelligence operations. lets not forget the UN and the French. Both backed the killers in Rowwanda and only after the rebels finally fought back against genocide did the UN and France declare a humanitarian tragedy when the killers ended up mass refugees. This is true, France backed genocide to protect their interests and the UN did nothing because of that association. Goutros Goutros Ghali is scum, he was instrumental in Rowanda being allowed to happen by the UN. The bottom line is you can kill civilians, cause civil wars, make kids fight with AKs and hang people for being gay, as long as you are friendly towards US interests you are good to go. History proves this beyond any doubt whatsoever, given the US IS NATO then these people are good to go with the UN as well. Where is the reports on Ashton being caught with the latvian PM talking about Maidan hiring the snipers, her "oh that's interesting" comment on the call reeked of "I wish I hadn't just heard that" She didn't even want to discuss it. As for the US and UK, many believe the war of independence was a sham and that the US never broke England's grip at all http://themindunleashed.org/2013/11/12-year-old-discovers-all-us-presidents.html All presidents but one blood relatives of British king something or other apparently Would be tragically hilarious if true.
My opinion is if it comes to a fight Russia will win. Just like Hitler annexed the Sudetenland (auto correct came up with Sunderland there) and the west stood buy the same will happen. No one wants a 3rd world war were the only winners will be the arms manufacturers. I suspect once Russia has the Ukraine they will move on to the rest of the old USSR countries.
Fact remains, if Russia had not helped the Crimea there would be killing going on there right now and Crimean males 18 25 would have been frog marched to the nearest recruitment centre. Maidan want that 17 billion from the IMF or rather US and want it badly, they will kill as many people as they need to to secure that loan and they won't get it unless they have control over the entire country. Welcome to ****ing democracy
At least now the title of this thread is actually accurate, there was no war until these US backed ****ing ****s started shooting at civilians and sending in their army and militias and the western media is pumping out lies by the barrel full. You know RT news is on the money when John Kerry actually attacks them in a speech. I mean, CNn Fox BBC have all been caught faking stories as well as rake of publishers like the Washington post and USA today and the like, the daily telegraph telling us Finland is next. RT has not been caught faking one story, the US actually are stating to look at banning this channel. That's a good ****ing sign if ever there was one. BBC calls it "Russian state news" ISNT THE BBC STATE OWNED AND MANAGED?!?
