Point taken re. McLaren vs BS but I still think BS has had enough games to have done better with this squad of players and the players brought in while he has been in charge. It's the away form and the failure to stop late goals which has let him down. I still insist it's about who can get us up and in that respect BS is a risk. However, I suspect that most alternative suggestions posted here will not fit the Pozzo 'model'. Also, nothing wrong in wanting BS to succeed. I hope we all want him to succeed, it's just a question of whether we think he will.
If BS is any sort of coach, he will evaluate his performance during the close season, learn from it and implement change. If there's no evidence of that happening early in the season, I've no doubt he will be shown the door. I've no problems with him staying, but then I'm speaking as the member of a minority - I don't particularly want us to get promotion....
I personally think he has a better shot at a good season next year given the time already spent with the players. If someone like Di Matteo wanted the job I would want and expect Sannino to lose his job immediately but I think we'd struggle to persuade a manager of that quality to take over a mid-table Championship team. I agree that Sannino is a risk but if you look at Rosler, Dyche or even Pearson a few years ago you can see it that often enough it does pay off. Zola himself was one game away from a risk that paid off in some respects.
During the past week I found myself heading towards the give him a bit longer camp. He is engaging with the way he connects with the fans, he had tightened up the defence at home after a terrible run that a coach of GFZ's standing said he didn't know how to deal with and he is trying to speak a foreign language that I know is not easy as you get to middle age. Today's performance however made me revert to my first impression. As good a guy as he is, he has not won anything of note, and when he was appointed I could not see that he was anything more than someone who had been brought in as a stopgap because he was available. Today I felt that he had been let down by most of the players, Bond and Deeney excepted. When I was speaking to Yorkie this evening he made the point that we are no further forward than we were when Baz brought in journeymen players. The table shows this to be right, yet despite having players who are have far more ability, as a team they have not gelled. There are a number of players who do not seem to have the game for the Championship. Lightweight, argumentative and not committed. Others who because of age or lack of something else give away far too many opportunities to the opposition. Standing on the touchline the coach cannot do a great deal once the whistle goes and to that extent maybe he hasn't got the players needed for this division. We might say that is not his fault, but we are told that Nani speaks daily to the head coach. The dilemma for me is, if he goes are we likely to get someone else who believes that a player because he has skill will make a good player for the team despite never playing in England? If the owners had known that Sean Dyche would get a team promoted would they have found a way to keep him at the club? He didn't really have a chance to stay as GFZ came as part of a package and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but would things have been different if he had stayed as assistant? It seems difficult to know which way the Pozzo's will go as they do not communicate with us very much, but on balance I think they may go for a change.
You not alone BB. I sometimes think that I like this league with the constant changes as teams find a bit of form and shoot up the close table, before losing it again and find themselves in a struggle to stay in it. GT came to the conclusion that a club with a fan base the size of ours would never these days stay in the PL for long, which suggests that seasons fighting against relegation would become the norm. The hope of promotion from the Championship seems to me to be better than getting there. Then again I like football matches that start at 3.00 pm on a Saturday when they should. Not on a Friday or a Monday to suit the piper who pays for the tune.
Well I don't play anymore, for obvious reasons. But when I did, I played for the enjoyment - and that's the key word for me, enjoyment. I knew my limitations as a player, as does everyone else, and was happy to play at a level at which I could compete and not look like a fish out of water. As for the team I support, I want to follow them for the enjoyment I get out of it, nothing else. From my team, I like to see them play in a competitive manner and not look like fish out of water. For me, the EPL represents the less desirable face of football - awash with too much money meaning a win at all costs attitude, nothing more than a business venture that must succeed or else, a plaything for the rich and their egos, no loyalty to or from player/club/fans..... I like being where we are, especially knowing where we came from - and simply don't mind if we stay here.
Y I absolutely agree with this. I feel increasingly alienated from the values and attitudes of the PL. Of course I go home happier when we win but the reason for my two hour each way drive is enjoyment and the uncertainty of the Championship means we can always hope for a win. It's probably age but too much hope and expectation is exhausting...
As always an excellent post BB - and I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately I am just too competitive in everything - I could never play a game if I did not intend to try to win. Given my uselessness at sport I was far more often on the losing side but I had to do my best and try to win. There is no satisfaction from beating someone who is just playing to enjoy themselves in my book. I extend that to my team. Watford have to try to get promoted and then to do their best if they succeed. I can take relegation from the Premiership. We are unlikely nowadays ever to find a Graham Taylor style model to succeed in the top flight - but we might - and I want us to try. I do not like the Premiership's money - if only we could cap every club at a total squad value of say £100m. But that wont happen. However I have always enjoyed seeing us play against the big name clubs and players and can live with that being a one season event. The trick is to not do what we have done before and to gear your finances to long term Premiership levels. Keep players on Championship wages and give enormous win bonuses if they need that to be motivated to play for you. Teams like West Brom in hte past have been successful in managing the up / down yo yo.
Bring in Giggs I say. United will appoint a big name and Giggs would fit in as player manager captain for a couple of years (1 championship then 1 or 2 prem years) to get the experience needed to move onto United. It would be a win win for both clubs... Whoever is manager we MUST get a leader on the pitch, without that we will remain disjointed and inconsistent.
Some very interesting points raised here. I tend to agree with the view about all that is bad about the EPL, but equally I wanted us to be there. How many fans didn't want us to win when we got to the play off final last year? I think it is difficult to judge so far. I like Sannino's passion, and at times recently the football has been better. Some nice stuff at home to Ipswich and at QPR. But I also feel that under Zola in the first two months of the season we were better. I also do believe he is learning the language. How many of us think we can speak fluently in a new language within 4 months? There is no doubt we were let down by some of the players signed this year who should have been much better. Looking at the history of Fabrinni, Acuna, Ireny etc, they should have been much better than they were. Faraoni looks a good player, but never seems to have settled, McCrechan (?) performed poorly when he came. I think Zola went too early, it was too knee-jerk for me, and I think he could have turned it around. I think with Abdi back and someone like Toszer, his team would have got back to playing well and winning. I think in my heart I would like to see Sannino given the summer, given another two defenders, and have Angella, Ekstrand and hopefully if we can afford his wages, Tozser stay. I fear we will lose Deeney, so hopefully we will get a decent replacement there. However, names like Steve Clarke and Di Matteo being mentioned, and their experience in the English league, I can't argue with the logic or sentiment
Thought I would indulge in my favourite pasttime of looking at a few statistics to see if that helped. It surprised me. I looked at the 24 games where BP has been in charge and compared them to the same games in each of the last two seasons. Where teams were promoted or relegated I used the equivalent team - e.g . Cardiff were promoted top club and have been replaced by Wigan - top relegated club and so on. BP has gained 35 points from those 24 games - which is 1.46 points per game and quite a bit behind the "usual" 1.56 ppg that the side in 6th place often gets and far far behind the target of about 2 ppg to get automatic promotion. However for those same games 2 years ago under Sean we gained 31 points and last year under GFZ we achieved a mere 22 points. BP has got 13 more points from those games than GFZ did in getting us to 3rd. Home and away statistics are interesting BP beat SD by 7 points in the home games but was 3 behind in the away games. BP beat GFZ by a massive 15 points in home games but was 2 points behind in away. Those are some facts - but it is what you read into them that matters. I read that BP has made a very considerable improvement over GFZ - not as I suspected a slightly marginal one - remember I am comparing BP's results with those GFZ achieved in the season we came 3rd. Also he has clearly made us much stronger at home - witness 6 successive clean sheet wins - and his away performance is only marginally worse that that of either SD or GFZ. It has made me change my mind. I am not suddenly an ardent supporter of BP and still question whether he has that winning mentality or can instill it into his team. However if he can continue to make us into a club with Fortress Vicarage Road and can find a formula to achieve results on our travels then we could give a good account of ourselves next year. Surely an Italian can find a way of making his team able to concede very little in the final 10 minutes - that would be job done. Also influencing me is the fact that I cannot think of a manager who would come to us who would be able to live with the Pozzo style while at the same time having Championship experience.
Maybe you would like to dig out the stats Leo. I read that while Cardiff and Burnley had not always been very exciting to watch, their success was built on giving very few goals away. The mantra being that if the opponents don't score you will pick up at least one point. It seems a reasonable way to go about things even if not so attractive for the fans. Our defence certainly needs a lot of work doing on it still if this is the way forward.
Am glad we don't have to play them every week with our propensity to leak last minute goals - their two today against L'pool having been scored in 45+3 and 90+4....
yesterday proved we are nothing without Abdi! I'd keep Sannino because i think he deserves a chance, but if i had the choice i'd get someone in who understands championship football and isn't happy with sitting so far back on a lead they're practically behind the goal line...and can't fix last minute conceding of goals!
H, I'd re-phrase that to nothing without a fully fit Abdi - he came on at the Etihad when we were 2-1 up..
