...at all this sudden positivity from the very same people who had been full of doom and predicted we would be relegated all season whilst the previous manager was in charge, all in spite of the fact we are now (in my eyes anyway) just about absolute certainties for the drop. Honestly, if it wasn't so depressing it would be bloody hilarious, you couldn't make it up!! I've read so much nonsense since the Liverpool game about what a miraculous improvement it was against anything under Hootun, how brilliant we were in the second half, how thew substitutions made such a massive difference and how we would have almost certainly rolled over and got beaten 8-0 had we not have changed managers. Isn't it amazing how those half-empty glasses suddenly seem so half-full to so many of you, whilst I personally am finding it tough noticing too many positives to go on at the moment. Just as an example, I have been comparing the weekend's game to the one we played away at Arsenal earlier in the season and to me the similaritiies are stark. We went 2-0 down against the Emirates to a couple of superb goals, only to mount a decent fist of it in the second half when we pulled a goal back and then camped out in their half for 20 minutes or so looking for the equaliser only to be finished off by a couple of late Arsenal goals on the break. I was at that game and can remember how good we looked in the second period, and were the better side for spells against a team who were on fire and at the top of the table at the time. I work with some Arsenal fans who were also there that day, and I remember them commenting about how worried they were that we were going to nick an equaliser after having them on the ropes during the second half. We had 8/11 of the same starting players on both games (Pilks, Bassong and Tettey played instead of Redmond, Whittaker and Johnson), so I really don't see what was so different - apart from the personnel in the dug-outs of course - and we certainly came away with the same number of points anyway. I am also mindful that at 2-0 it is easy for the team in front to take their foot off the gas, and sit back in an attempt to control the game more, which is precisely what both Arsenal and Liverpool did that allowed us to get a foothold back in the game. Interesting that as soon as Hooper scored on Sunday, the scousers moved up another gear and scored their third goal within a few minutes, telling me that they were always in control. And it was hardly as if we were peppering the Liverpool goal in the last ten minutes, we put them under pressure sure, but it's not as though there were shots cleared off the line, brilliant saves or goalmouth scrambles. Also going back a season further, anyone remember the home game against Man City when we were 2-0 down within the first few minutes, and it looked like a cricket score was on the cards for us to then stage a bit of a comeback to only end up losing 4-3? Ok, they did play the second half with ten men, and we were never within a goal of them, but we did have a bloody good go and Chris Hootun was manager that day as well, you'd never believe it though would you! I just it fascinating to see the rose-tinted spectacles coming out for certain people as soon as Hootun was sacked, clinging on to every tiny smidgen of positivity (even when there is none) despite having spent a full year moaning, groaning and finding nothing but negativity in everything they see - despite us being in a far more secure situation then than we currently find ourselves in now. For me it's just another example of people seeing whatever they want to see to suit their own little opinion, which ultimately is anyone's prerogative to do so, but it also doesn't take into account the full set of facts and only tells half the story, which I personally find disingenuous, inaccurate and more than a little insulting when trying to have a debate.
Look Munky, I know you don't like your opinions being challenged and in doing so I risk being lambasted for pedanticism, always wanting the last word and being thick ... ... but I respectfully disagree (with just a couple of points) I think the performance was better than most of what we have seen all season. I also think the substitutions were better than Hughton's generally and at appropriate time and Adams did show flexibility in responding to difficulties. Whether the performance can largely be put down to the crowd's positivity is something of a moot point! Agree though that there is something of an irony in the bizarre positivity given that I can't see us avoiding the drop, but to my mind that shows that a lot of supporters genuinely do value entertainment over being in the top league with the best players. It's something of a loose line, but I get the impression that you (correct me if I'm wrong) and, say, Superman, believe that our immediate priority (i.e. next three years or so) should be securing premier league status and if it comes at the expense of enjoyment so be it. From a financial point of view, there's a lot to commend that.
WHilst there is a lot of truth in what you say Munky. For me it is that feeling like we have been dining on bread and water for the best part of 2 years, and whilst a cold glass of Yak urine and an unripe banana may look worse, after all that bread and water, these things taste a whole heap sweeter than the same old same old, which wasn't that palatable in the first place! Certaintly wouldn't want the urine and banana indefinitely, but the banana might ripen to something good. The bread and water will still be bread and water. I think the word I'm looking for is "Hope!". It had long left carrow road under Hughton, even if it is a forlorn and doomed hope under an inexperienced manager in a despirate situation. The improved performances/fight was more obvious than in the preceding games this year and most especialy recently. I am an optomist in general (I think you need to be to follow any club but the top few!), but like many others I could not see any reason to be with someone incapable of the job at the helm. I'm not sure Adams is capable, but he hasn't proved himself not to be. Bah!
The thing is though General, the Fulham game particularly was EXACTLY the same as so many other games under Hootun where have conspired to lose/draw after having more than enough of the game and chances to win - West Brom, West Ham, both Cardiff games, Hull, Villa at home spring to mind - and as I tried to point out the Liverpool game wasn't so different to our defeat at the Emirates earlier in the season so I personally don't actually see anything so vastly different. I don't believe this renewed "hope" is much to do with anything that is happening on the pitch as much as what is happening between the ears of our fans based solely on the fact Chris Hootun isn't our manager any more. For the record, despite having backed him all season I understood why he was replaced and I'm not saying that we would have picked up any more points than the zero we currently have under Adams (who I am also a MASSIVE fan of by the way) so I am not criticising the board's decision to sack him, and I also know it's far, far too early to judge Adams and his abilities so I am not being critical of him, it's more the sudden switch in attitude from glass virtually empty to brimming over the top despite very little tangible evidence to suggest such a shift from my personal perspective is what I am currently finding bizarre/predictable/laughable. And Rob, nice to know we're back on speaking (or should that be "reading"?) terms again, it really is so silly when we keep falling out so spectacularly - let's try and see if we can manage a couple of months before we do it again eh?
Canary Rob! Be advised any attempt to publicise your spat with Resurgam will receive similar treatment!
OK, sorry, I don't mind people knowing I had an argument with him though? I've had lots of arguments with lots of people, I didn't realise I'm not supposed to say. Munky - truce agreed All I was saying is you're not the only one - I'm obviously an argumentative bean. A lot of the time I'm just confused and playing devil's advocate though, I don't mean to offend!
I was going to say, bit below the belt posting PMs on here isn't it? I also have to say however (and I just want to make it perfectly clear that that I don't necessarily agree with what he said) that was an absolutely superb comeback from Resurgam, I literally did spit out my tea when I read that!
Is there actually a rule against posting PMs? Obviously if it's something said in confidence, but surely when it's just a petty little spat it's neither here nor there, especially when it was supposed to be a joke at my own expense. Agreed it was pretty amusing, and brutal! We live and learn...
Ach, it was only a joke and at my own expense too. Given that you knew there was a spat it was hardly as if he had kept it private Believe it or not as you will, but I'm discreet when it's something truly private, but a silly little feud is nothing to get worked up about
Again you are may be right on this by the large, I for one was sick of the negative feeling around the club which I was also feeling. Now I chose to pin that negativity to the effect the manager had had on and off the pitch, now he is gone I feel more positive. But like Canary Rob I also do think there has been an upturn in performances (though not results) since the change but it is still a little hopeless looking on paper. Whether founded or not, I just think we will now try to win the remaining games to try and get out of this mess rather than muddle through hoping to sneek a point here or there and still failing. Don't get me wrong I still think we will go down, but I'll be allot happier if I can see that we are really fighting not to. My glass is not exactly brimming over as my continued resignation to relegation would suggest. I'm just a bloody sight happier seeing in my opinion more fight, a couple of goals, no thrashings yet! and a little bit more intent to win instead of not lose! Bah!
I'm bloody curious now! Anyone gonna PM what this pearl of abuse was? Does it involve throwing spanners? Bah!
Quite simple really Under Hughton I hated the brand of football on offer The results and more so the performances were generally pants He irked me with his continual praise for teams that had beaten us in the media I had no confidence in him as NCFC manager. That's it really. However I am now very happy he has gone Our current predicament clearly shows that everyone calling for him to have been replaced much earlier are correct & we may well have been safe by now. So by all means come back with your one sided argument followed by slap heads, I'd almost be offended if there wasn't one. You and me will never agree on this subject so I simply disagree to disagree and leave it at that.
Correct me if I'm wrong chippy, but you appear to be saying that you should be allowed to have your opinion but RBF is not allowed to have his! Seems a bit unfair! Edit: I said RBF when I now see you were referring to Munky, still applies though!
I never understood people criticising CH for praising the opposition. Whats wrong with that? Just seemed like decent sportsmanship to me. Unless you prefer him to slate the opposition and blame everyone else in the media. I agree with RBF I don't think some of the fans have helped the cause his season.
I think the post is spot on- the team was starting to gel and a short while later, injuries threw a great big f**k off spanner in the works- it has to be said that most people actually have no idea about how professional sport works (I include myself) and it has been richly illustrated to me when I tried to discuss cricket with mike brearly- I was fecking clueless - still I expect our ill informed debates to rage on
Absolutely agree And the other thing that irks me, something that to me shows a real lack of intelligence is the way some people seem to believe that what he said to the press is the same thing he said to the players on the training ground and in the dressing room. Ok, I've never been in the dressing room on matchdays so I can't be 100%, but I would definitely bet my house on it that what is said is quite different from the version we hear via the media.
I'm sure he doesn't say the same thing to the players! haha And in my original post I meant I agree with you, not RBF although I believe he said something similar elsewhere Plenty you can criticise CH with without clutching at straws. By all accounts he got on very well with players at his previous clubs (don't know about here) so I'm not sure I buy into him taking all the enjoyment of playing away from the players.
Spot on. How someone speaks to the media is broadly speaking around bottom on my list of how to rate a manager.
