In all honesty and fairness I'd agree with 95% of that and even the 5% I don't agree with would have been an extremely tough call to make. Am I judging Jock Stein too harshly..? Part of me says yes, but another part of me is hugely disappointed that a man in his position, with the huge responsibility towards vulnerable youngsters his position carried, made a decision for the wrong reasons. You see, that's the clincher. Not that he found out, was rightfully appalled as any decent person would be, and shot the guy out of the place immediately, which any decent person would do, but that he then made the decision not to involve the Police simply to protect the organisation he worked for. I'm sorry, but that's the bit that sticks in the throat. And I don't care whether that organisation is Celtic Football Club, Rangers Football Club, The Bank of Scotland or Menzies the Newsagents. He did it to protect a commercial interest - and that is just wrong.
The fact is you don't know that do you? We are talking about a man who everyone (without exception) in Scottish Football looks up to, to argue that he was somehow at fault for not reporting this leech to the Police given the time it happened is utterly pointless. Torbett deserves to be totally despised, Stein's memory does not. What is beyond dispute is that when Stein did hear whispers he acted in the only way he knew how. How many cases like this saw people sentenced prior to the 90s? Scant few i'd hazard, and seeing how that's the case then everyone who suspected someone of being an abuser and did not report it (myself included) is guilty of inaction. It's a sad indictment of society that it still goes on behind closed doors today. A modern example is Josef Fritzl, was his wife to blame for his actions? She must have had suspicions after all?
It's inconceivable, to me at least, that a man as clever as Jock could fail to see what was going on. No one was more aware of the damage the CBC child abuse scandal could do to Celtic Footbal Club than Jock Stein. He put the reputation of the club before the safety of other young players at risk and for that there can be no excuse.
Sorry, but this is an enormous red herring. It's not the responsibility of someone who suspects a child is being abused to come up with the evidence of that abuse. We've come on exponentially since those days but even so they had social workers and nurses/wpc's who's job it would have been to interview any alleged victims and uncover the truth. It goes without saying that if any one of us on this forum even suspected a child we knew was being abused sexually or physically we wouldn't hesitate to inform the authorities, whether we had actual proof or not. Are we really SO different from people around at that time..? We're not naive, we're not stupid. We know secrets are kept for a reason, it just has to be what someone considers to be a good enough reason. It's a judgement call and on that occasion it was very poor judgement. In the end, Jock Stein may not have been told at all. He may have heard a rumour, a chinese whisper, looked in Torbett's eyes and disliked intensely what he saw. There can't be a person on this forum who would disagree that if that was the case and Jock acted on his own instincts and suspicions then he was a hero. It was only after he booted him out the door that he fell down. If he'd kicked **** out of the guy and the **** had never ever abused another child again then I don't think any of us would see anything wrong in what he did either. Unfortunately Jock didn't, Torbett did and the rest is bitter history..
**** sake Rocket... Biggest night of the Xfactor and you're on here...thought you'd have yer chinky and voting away
I'm sitting here on my laptop surrounded with my family and they're raging because I'm not joining in. They keep asking what's so important on here to keep me from them and to be honest I've no ****ing idea!
OK, well that's where we differ because I think a man in his position could and should have done more. Great power, great responsibility and all that. I have to be honest, if we'd stopped the story right there with Jock kicking the bastard out of Celtic Park - preferably via his bollocks - then fine, on balance the kids were freed from abuse and didn't have to suffer the shame and distress of a trial. The problem is it didn't end there and he went on to abuse more kids. For me that's where the house falls down. I don't know enough detail to comment, but I don't see how she couldn't have known or suspected..
Yes indeed, Jock Stein putting him in a coma would have worked wonders, i'm afraid that's ridiculous. Can I ask how old you are? Not a dig.
I didn't know that. Are there any quotes from JS to underline that point..? Or is it just an automatic assumption that anyone who plays for manages or supports Celtic automatically comes to despise Rangers and everything it stands for..? Is this the definition of the mystical phrase "Celtic-minded"..? Don't know if you want to take this thread off at a tangent or perhaps start a new one but, at the risk of sounding flippant, 'What's your point caller...?' It would be useful to see the text and context in which those quoted extracts were written but it is indeed very difficult, if not impossible to decipher which Rangers songs could be described as discriminatory or not. but just to point out the absurdity of the question here's something for you to consider: Is "We love you Celtic, we do" discriminatory or not..? Are Catholic Schools not places where children of one Religious faith are kept apart from children of other faiths..? I'm surprised you haven't discovered, or don't choose to mention, that Catholic Schools are often referred to as Bigot Factories, which to me is an even more apt description . I can't see much to argue with the description of Glasgow City Council either..
It's not ridiculous, although I didn't suggest that's what Jock Stein should have done it's not a bad idea in hindsight. To quote Aaliyah, "Age ain't nuthin but a number", and I'm not sure why it's relevant to the discussion, but I'm in my 40's.
Now your'e just rambling Spin Man, I never brought religion into the equation I simply showed Grandmaster Suck's previous for doing so, using "Quotes" where necessary, many of these can be found. Personally I don't give a flying **** about who went to what school and which system is best but anyone who suggests that Catholic schools are "bigot factories" is a ****ing idiot with one gigantic chip on his shoulder, in fact if there is a problem in Scotland it is generally half wits who entertain that notion who are at the root of it. Maybe i've picked you up wrong but that's what you seem to be suggesting.
Think we veered off subject here....lets back back to basics Dev, do you think it is ok to sing about/mock the victims of the Ibrox disaster? Simple yes or no will suffice
I'd rather post on the most boring sport to watch bar cricket pishy thread that Nev so kindly posted than talk about this pishy argument
I have already made my view "patently" clear on that subject, so here goes again, anyone who would taunt victims of the Ibrox disaster is a lowlife scumbag. So NO, it is not ok for people to sing about it.
