What has changed with the McLaren design team? They were competitive in 2010,2011,and 2012- what has caused them to go so far backwards?
"it's easy to see why they are looking for an aerodynamicist" - Christian Horner There was one pretty telling comment from Whitmarsh last year, where he said that the 2012 car was faster on track than in all their simulations beforehand. In other words, even then they didn't actually know WHY they were quick.
I think that blaming Whitmarsh is just assumed these days. Apparently he's currently being blamed for poluting the water supply form the reservoir that his corpse was dumped in.
Very convenient... He's gone the same way as Shergar. He'll be turning up in cheap "beef" products up and down the nation.
This may seem out of place with recent posts (which I admit to not having read at all). I came here for what I hoped would be an interesting read, as well as to offer my own contribution about the Chinese Grand Prix, which I for one, enjoyed – although of course it was never likely to live up to anyone who allowed their expectations to be unrealistically heightened by the last race. I sat down to pick through and compare notes with what's been written here. I've seen some interesting posts, especially from names I don't recognise (and one in particular which correctly compares the Ferrari drivers), whom I presume are new to this forum*. But I've had a rethink. In all honesty, I'm a little bit stunned. After a very quick scan (I've probably read about 5% of this thread), I've seen what looks suspiciously like what one might expect to find in a tribal football forum which is a shame when I see several new members, some of whom seem pretty well-informed and might have hoped for what is arguably our normal, higher standard! I'm not going to get involved in specifics because I've not read the thread properly. I'd just like to repeat what I said long ago about expectations for this season because it appears more relevant in the aftermath of this weekend, where the dominance of a team has not been offset by an absolute stunner of a race. After a huge shake up in the regulations, it is virtually ALWAYS the case that the grid spreads out. This is even more likely after such a long period of stability where regulation changes were relatively minor. This is because 'perfection' is easier to achieve when more is known, and everyone's knowledge evolves towards the same point as they understand any particular set of technological challenges**. Incidentally, this also explains why the previous dominant team may appear to have been ahead by a smaller margin (although still behind, everyone else had got closer to the ideal, so the gap tends to narrow over time), but this is also testament to that team that it continued to dominate for so long, especially in Vettel's hands. So, anyone who did not expect one team to be dominant after such a shake-up was simply not being realistic. Yet it seems some are very suddenly, or once again, ready to throw in the towel on their favourite sport because it's not what they expected or hoped for! (Advice please: should I laugh or cry?) Despite the changes, the non-tribalists and the realists are still enjoying exciting racing, even if one team has stolen a march, which was always far more likely than not; it was simply a matter of 'which team?'. But I find it a shame to see posts which mock or belittle a driver (or drivers or team) simply because it's not theirs. Please, if it's not your particular favourite, don't spoil it for those who perceive their sun rising; they may feel they've waited a long time, or stand on different land.- - -o0o- - - *I should take this opportunity to extend a welcome to all new members, and look forward to meeting you all as the season progresses. (Yes, despite today's disappointment, I expect to stick around a fair while yet. (And apologies to those who might hope otherwise! )) I also glanced at the driver ranking thread, and am assuming that opinions expressed there are probably consistent with this thread. **To put this a different way, knowledge (about any subject) always and necessarily converges, for what is known is necessarily limited to what is known. It is therefore only when presented with something new, that knew* becomes less relevant! *Knew ('has been known' as opposed to 'known has been'). Also, Newey; although of course one knows better than to limit him to past tents… Analogy: Big strides are made by pioneers, but when the pioneer cannot rome, his knowledge is limited and may even suffer a caesar.
Nice post Cosicave. Only fair that I chip in, as a recent arrival. (Obviously I'm a sample of 1. I'm not trying to speak for anyone else.) I ended up here from a link that BLS posted on one of the BBC's comments sections. (My presence here is his fault.) I lurked for a while, and was pretty effing chuffed to see the breadth & intelligence of the discussions, and the respectful and open-minded ways in which people disagreed but listened to reach other's opinions. I'm interested in F1, but nowhere near as knowledgeable as most people here. It was the off-season and I learned a whole bunch about the new regs, and was astonished at how well informed you guys are. Now the season has started and all of the above still holds true. I've got a lot of knowledge & insights from this forum (not contributed much yet, but that will change.) So that's the good stuff. On the down side, now the season has started, so has the tribal venom that I thought I'd seen the last of. So I've also learned that people who come up with plenty of rational, insightful respectful posts 90% of the time can still suddenly turn into the worst stereotypical fanboys or haters. I wonder if the F1 drivers ever read these forums and think "what the hell is wrong with our so-called fans? I'm the guy that got criticised, and I don't care. Why are my fans falling out with each other like adolescent girls?" Anyway, speaking as one newcomer, all in all it's a great forum that's occasionally let down by smart people acting like kids.
I think people are being *obviously* harsh on Vettel after being beaten for so long, the wounds for them are still very raw as they have waited a very long time to get the chance to **** all over his career at the first sign of weakness and it was inevitable to happen. I seem to remember a 7 time world champion getting the same reception so it comes no surprise of history repeating itself when one does not perform 100% I mean it isn't like they're human or anything... For me it shows the quality of the RB junior program and that Daniel is very fast, maybe the best driver of the year at the moment considering the car was in testing and where he has performed on Sat and Sun better than most. It also shows the quality of the grid in general and it makes you wonder.....why.......cant......Hulk.......get in on that action! A top team must hire him now surely?!? So what I'm saying is people should be praising Daniel for his performance more than condemning Vettel for his performance as sadly Daniel has been caught in this trap being of declared "average" when he is taking it to the 4 time world champion. I mean wouldn't that make Daniel's victory even greater than Lewis' or Senna's challenge to Alonso and Prost? I'm a Mercedes fan as well as a Vettel fan, so I will be in the middle of this "battle" rather than picking any side but I would like to highlight Vettel struggling or being outdone by his team mate over the first 4 races is nothing new IMO in F1. Even the great Lewis Hamilton was losing in the early stages of 2010 by that guy *clicking fingers* Jenson! he won 2 races and was leading the WDC at this same point, he was always called an average driver until he showed what he could do against Lewis in 2010 and 2011. Daniel is doing the same and Vettel will have to step it up further in the season before it gets out of hand, but lets actually see what happens rather then thinking F1 is made of only 4 races... Hopefully for Ernie Vettel or a retired Webber will never join Mercedes in 2015, I mean how shameful would it be if Lewis lost to an overrated driver in which a monkey could win in? It's like in that film: "White men cant jump"- 'If I miss this shot, I walk away, still a chump.... But if you miss, you've been beat not once... but twice, by a slow, white, geeky chump.' EDIT: And btw the reference of that scene has nothing to do with skin colour, but on the reference that people underestimated him and dismissed him early on.
Re the above posts I have been horrified by a lot of what's in this thread. I really have. I thought this forum was better than this. It's not the fault of most people on here so I haven't lost faith in the forum which is almost always excellent. But there are some people here who really do spout some crap. And it has nothing to do with not respecting their opinions or their right to them, just bored of the same deliberately ignorant assumptions, which have been shown to be wrong many times and yet we still hear the same things over and over again. There is a driver on the grid that some people will always criticise whatever he does. He has been vilified for winning, losing, having a good car, having a bad car, thanking his team, not thanking his team, being confident, not being confident, owning a dog, having a girlfriend, not having a girlfriend. He's an easy target this year because he is winning in a good car and those people are not happy that it is not their favourite driver who is winning in a good car. There are all sorts of accusations of hypocrisy, but the fact remains that if their favourite driver was in the same position they would have no problem with the situation. That is human nature folks. I can only conclude that these people lack maturity or are deliberately provoking debate (I am being very kind with how I have phrased that). We learn nothing from the tribal warring there has been on this thread, where some people seek to turn everybody into extremists on one side of the debate or the other. Believe it or not some (most) of us may have their favourite drivers but we all have more than one and we all care about a lot more than just who comes first. Best driver? Worst driver? On their day many drivers can lay claim to these titles but probably not all the time.
Vettel admits struggles in braking and acceleration out of corner: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...ttel-los-kein-vertrauen-ins-auto-8313222.html From one curve to the other For Vettel it is not yet running around. "I feel in the car still not as well as I want it. During braking, driving in and out of the corners I lack the absolute confidence." This has less to do with the characteristics of the Red Bull RB10 than with the peculiarities of the engine. The car itself is full after Vettel's taste. None sticks so well in the curves on the road and Adrian Neweys recent design. But when braking and accelerating, the new power unit plays a crucial role. Depending on how the batteries are charged from the MGU-K, the brake balance is adjusted. "You indeed can fine-tune still," said Vettel, "but the decisive happened without your influence in your back.'s Why it is never clear how distributes the braking force. This is from curve to curve and round to round differently." " Many wonder how many times my colleagues and I miss the braking points this year., we see as often like beginners.'s why I brake in general to have something sooner to reserves. then but for me agrees with the first part of the curve does not. It does not fit my driving style. " When accelerating, the same in green. "You're never quite sure how the power used in the first part of the acceleration. It also depends again on how the electric motors feed their power. Mir missing since still feel for the torque., The performance is not always the case since, as it retrieves them." The problems on a round potentiate to a race distance. If the line is not round, the tire wear increases. Marko supported: "Sebastian was from the tire to the tire eater Whisperer A sign that he still has problems with the car.." Brake by wire and MGU-K systems effecting how he approaches corners in short and there's nothing really he can do until the systems work for his driving style.
Well the Mercedes rep. on the podium had his upside down on his head too, so that one can't be laid solely at Hamilton's door. Never having won an international trophy, I've no idea how much respect it's standard to give them, so I won't pass comment. I also can't say I think that was the smartest of posts EMSC, in light of what has been written above. It's just stirring.
Not sure I agree with you 100% but I think the bit in bold is probably the issue we are experiencing on this board. In relation to Lewis he has contributed directly to both his positive and negative comments/actions - he is a brand (created) and he has a responsibility to protect and develope that brand - like every other driver or sportsperson throughout the world.
Some people see obvious "unusual traits" in any sports person, some don't see them. The only time I've really, REALLY! held anything against Hamilton and some of his verbal clangers was with the stewards at Monaco 2011.
I'm not saying he has never made mistakes. Personally, his low point for me was "Is it cos I'm black" which I dearly wish (and he probably dearly wishes) he could take back. There have been errors. But everyone in the spotlight makes them, particularly when thrust into the spotlight at a young age. We have watched him grow up, good and bad. I do think some people won't forgive him whatever he does though. He seems to be held accountable in a different way to other drivers.
I'd love to say it'll get better, and we'll get over it... but if the current pecking order in the sport continues then things are only likely to get worse I'm afraid. Stick around though... the first supernova of the season should be an impressive one.
Sadly it wont calm down Sarge, Lewis had said a few famous quotes over the last year with regards to Vettel's domination which I expect to come up a lot against Hamilton further down the season. Most notably: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24206375 and http://www.gptoday.com/details/view...beatable_his_car_is_unbeatable_says_Hamilton/ and this http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/2...els-f1-domination-risks-putting-fans-to-sleep and this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...o-Alonso-is-better-than-Sebastian-Vettel.html I'll give it a race or 2 with Lewis winning, then the main armada will walk in and the Nuclear bunkers is where I will be heading. Luckily for Lewis Vettel hasn't said anything about his domination.......yet! *shudders*
