That (better performances) is very hard to do with a **** midfield/defence and players who don't want to play for you tbf. I do accept some of our performances have been shocking bcos of Moyes also. Also, lets put today's performance into perspective here. The score really could have been anything - a United win, a 0-0 draw or the Everton win. Nobody can say that Everton dominated and we were outplayed throughout. We could and should have taken the lead before them. Our performance for the first 60 minutes (except the kamakazee nature of the goals) wasn't exactly negative was it? Hence why I picked on Rooney and Carrick for different reasons. Rooney fcked up all our interplay in the final third with those fcking stupid dinks and flicks over the defence which never came off and were completely idiotic.
I have said the bit about the coaches many times too. That was a mistake. He could do worse than to bring some really experienced coaches to help. I hope he is not too proud to do that. If it was good enough for Fergie then it is good enough for him. If he is still not getting results after the first few months of next season, he'll be off. I am certain of that.
Is it? Not 12 months ago the league leaders of today had a pretty dire midfield and squad. Somehow though they have performed out of their skin. United for the past few seasons have had a pretty poor midfield but have dominated with ease. Maybe itn was all Fergie but thats like claiming its all rodgers at liverpool.... Also if that is the case then the current slump is all Moyes.
I honestly don't believe another manager out there would have got us higher than 4th/5th this season with that squad. And I believe Moyes deserves the blame for dropping us down a further couple of places to 7th. One thing I think we do agree on is that the team does NOT need a complete overhaul. There are a few key positions in midfield and defence and then Moyes really should have us top 4 and challenging for the title. IF we're not doing that next season following some decent signings then I won't defend him at all.
Really? Rodgers and Jose have got worse sets of players doing far better. I firmly believe only City have a better squad than us that cannot be argued against. Of course its hard to say this while we have been so poor but things dont change so quickly in football and everything has been exaggerated this season. I think an elite manager would have the title secured by now. I think this because the last time an elite manager had this squad.... he did exactly that. Yes it was Sir Alex and yes hes the best ever but hes not the only elite manager who can do what he did. The likes of Klopp at Dortmund has done something as impressive. Simone at Madrid. Mourinho at Inter and Porto and Rodgers at Liverpool. Taken a side thats maybe not great compared to a galactico's squad but one that is world class as a unit. That what we were. A world class unit. Moyes has destroyed that unity. Our once world class squad plays like its never kicked a ball together in anger. Once familiar friends now distant from each other. Put a world class manager with world class motivational skills and some ****ing charisma in charge of this lot this season and weve already won the title. have you seen the ****ing dross we compete against? Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Pep...any like that and were playing dead rubbers because weve walked it.
What a load of ****e. Fergie bought and fitted in those players, he knew them better than they knew themselves. Teams often were already beat before turning up at OT under Fergie, for years this was the case. Fergie has managed every season in the PL with United till this one. No one is walking in and carrying on from where he left off. Would you really accept Jose type football after 2 decades of attacking football, look at how he had Madrid and how he has another several hundred million pound squad playing, gonna bring his spend up to nearly 300m in the summer, in just over 12 months by July. Pulis would do well with that kind of cash ffs
It's not as simplistic as that. I think you're wrong to have this 2+2=4 approach to managers. Fergie was an exceptional manager, but that doesn't mean another exceptional manager would have got us the title or top4 with this squad. You have to factor in that Fergie knew the players, they were his players, he knew how to play them together, when to play them, he developed the players to suit HIS tactics, he knew how to get the best out of them and (I can't emphasise this enough) he knew how to "man manage" them because he was god. Maybe another exceptional manager could have covered 2 or 3 of those areas but certainly not all - and it would have taken them ALL those areas to get that squad challenging for the title. Likewise it's Rodger's team and Simeone's team, so they're succeeding bcos they're their players and playing his style of football. I would add that what's saving Liverpool from their leaky back 4 is their front 3 and a reasonable effort by Gerrard in that new DM role. And IF your point is correct, why has Mourinho walked into Chelsea and by his standards failed. As for his time at Inter and Real, I think you forget his first seasons for both. He had to build his own team to suit his philosophy at both. Also, regarding this squad being world class and being the same squad that won the league 12 months ago. The truth is that as well as what I've said about Fergie, this so-called world class squad needed Scholes to come out of retirement for 18 months to help them win anything. Lets not sugar coat it UIR, our football for the last 3 seasons has been fcking dire. We didn't win the league bcos of our consistently exceptional, dynamic attacking football last season. We won it bcos of moments of brilliance from individuals rather than the team as a whole. THAT is being exposed massively now, particularly with RVP being injured.
If there were no similar examples of managers doing exactly that at any other club in football in the past few months then you might have a point. As it is, you dont.
Ok now before you all jump up and down this is not a WUM. I Watched the game with my son in law who is a united fan. It's obvious where everything falls down for you. You have no pace and no penetration. Time and again a sustained period of possession results int he ball going backwards after creating nothing. Once it goes back the top sides are pressing hard and breaking against you. Defensively you are not good enough ( nor are Liverpool before you start) and you are not quick enough to counter attack. Now, united sides of the past always broke quickly...two , three touches and a goal or shot on target. How many shots did Howard save today? The players Moyes has bought are slow. Mata needs speedy players around him to make the use of his undoubted quality but he is very slow. Rooney looks pissed off with the players around him ( much like Gerrard and Torres did a few seasons ago). You pump endless balls into the box....when did united do that since Beckham left!? Moyes has turned a champion winning team , and let's not forget he has spent £60+ million on supposedly improving that squad! into a hoof ball team. Of course all non-united fans are happy at your current demise but it's a strange season where United have no say or involvement in where the title ends up. If Moyes stays will you want him to be handed a massive transfer kitty?
It was not awful at all. I suspect this is down to many starting to believe tika taka is good. Its really not. Some of our attacking football last season was brilliant. As good as anything anyone has produced this season.
Who? Pep? Took over by far the best squad in that league and in Europe. German league is piss weak outside 6 teams, piss weak. Maybe not even 6, 4 teams, the rest are championship level, some maybe not even. That is nothing like taking over an aging squad with a bit of ****e in it too, in the PL, a team that just lost the manager they've had for ever. You put too little down to Fergie going. By aging I mean Vidic Rio Giggs and Evra, Carrick, RvP, you know, all your best players Jose, took over a very expensive squad, made them play no concede football, and spent probably half a billion in total. Inter? **** league, ****ing ****e though he did well winning the CL, he's a good coach who plays ****e football, again, would you accept ****e football after 2 decades of attacking football you gimp.
Nowt wrong with that except the hoofball. As you said yourself, we passed it endlessly so we tried to break them down but failed. I think Everton defended well, but Rooney was our front man but he was looking for the hollywood instead of the more sensible through ball or running in behind himself. I also stick by what I said earlier in that Carrick (our CM) was unable to play any decisive forward passes. Hence why Mata was ALWAYS running deep and this always makes him look slow. If we had a decent centre mid (a deep playmaker like Alonso for example) Mata would be much more effective particularly on the counter.
All fair points. We lack pace but not just running like Valencia brings. Januzaj carried a little threat of that sort for us earlier in the season. Forced defender to back track, nani can do that as can Valencia ( though hes going the same way every time ). Once the midfield is sorted and a LB is sought we could look at a winger. Welbeck can bring that pace we need as well. Defensively we are very unsettled. Play th same ****ing back 4 moyes. How hard is it. Let them find their rhythm and see how it goes. Its meant to be a unit. Rooney may be pissed of with the players around him bu at times I have no doubt they are fuming with him. The **** was he doing ignoring Nani today? Nani was out for 4 months and played better than rooney today by a distance yet rooney ignores him? I would hope Moyes bollocked him for such behaviour but he wont. and finally do I ****. It would be the biggest mistake United have ever made since.... well last season, hiring Moyes.
I'd imagine that if Moyes was going to be sacked it would have happened after our thrashings by Liverpool and City. We're probably stuck with him until Christmas at least. We have to invest. We all know our squad is too weak, but i'm not convinced that throwing money at the problem will fix much with the way our mentality and style of play has been under Moyes.
Im not being funny but have you seen the PL? Full of great players but very few great sides. The great side always wins going by recent seasons. People like pep walk into a club and say, hello winners, my names Pep and I like to win. I dont know anything else. You guys are the best set of players ever. Anything other than that is unacceptable. Moyes walks in and goes, oh, I really hope we dont lose. Im probably going to sell all you guys and buy some other players because your all losers. No go play ball! Mentality bbf. Its all about the mentality.
I thought nani was awful today but when Valencia came on he did nothing either. I find it hard to believe that Moyes has the support of the dressing room. The only player who showed desire throughout the game was Darren fletcher.
**** tiki taka!!! What does that have to do Man United? Well I'm not going to debate the last 3 seasons but I laugh at anyone who thinks we played fluid, attacking, expansive football. It was a case of nullifying teams into submission and then relying on our forwards to grind out a win. We have continuously failed to perform against the best teams in the prem or our biggest rivals over that period. Jesus we went out at the Group Stages of CL playing absolute dour shocking ****e. And then quickly got spanked out of the Europa League lol. Fans have been crying out for creative midfielders, box to box midfielders precisely bcos our team in the last 3 seasons has looked pedestrian and cumbersome going forward. Why else was Scholes brought back? The predicament we're in hasn't just suddenly happened overnight, it's been coming and there were warning signs over the last 3 seasons.
Oh he wasnt good. Not even close. He was though miles better than Rooney and had some nice touches to say hes been out 4 months and played about 6 games all season. Actually ran at a defender. I bet the defender was in shock as United wingers dont run at you........ anymore. Welbeck wants out so I think that says it all about Moyes and the players. Welbeck ffs, a lifelong United fan living the dream....
Nani was good today. He was attacking and the ONLY player willing to take on the Everton players or try and go past players. He created space for himself and others with a drop of the shoulder and shift in movement, and he was all over the pitch. He linked up well and allowed Smalling to overlap out wide (something Valencia is ****e at).
Defensively we were shocking. Going forward far from. Our play beyond the midfield was almost always good, often great and sometimes amazing. It was quite the opposite from the midfield and back though save for one or two performances out of the blue. Yes RvP scored crucial goals last season and we won games we ought not to.... but we have done the exact same thing for 20 odd years. Defying logic so many times.
