If you are actually interested in the truth on what happened with Ukraine. This American lad puts it together nicely with info you can check yourself. If you don't watch it don't bother commenting on it. [video=youtube;fWkfpGCAAuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fWkfpGCAAuw[/video] This guy has openly target Russians and Jews for years. Sends an open letter to the Ukraine government about fighting organised Jewry. Hold on a minute, wasn't that French comedian just banned from entering England for Antisemitic hate speech, yet Catherine Ashton and the EU and the US seem to be very fond of this guy. EU condemnation of his party too previously, now they are the good guys. Svoboda, formerly the Socialist national Party, doesn't sound like National Socialist Party at all please log in to view this image
BBC 2012 Svoboda: The rise of Ukraine's ultra-nationalists http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20824693 "we want Ukraine for Ukrainians", reads like "We want Germany for Germans" reads like "We want Israel for Israelis" All too familiar.
That's a good video there Sisu, the leaked phone calls must be a real killer for the Americans. Victoria Nuland "**** the E.U"
The media focused totally on "**** the EU" and totally ignored the discussion on who will be in the Ukrainian government by Nuland and the US diplomat in Ukraine. Also well spotted by the video creator that the "I am Ukrainian" video was produced by a guy who is adviser to the state department and head of an NGO that is almost entirely funded by the US government, this NGO has put 5 billion into Ukraine's "new government". All just coincidence I am sure, violent regime change good, referendum on independence. Bad. I also have to point out the evidence, 0 evidence Russia has done anything wrong, and what appears to be significant evidence of EU US regime change in Ukraine. Yet people still cling to the Russiaphobia like a blanket to keep them warm during the cold war
2 Gas price hikes in 2 days. Gas in Ukraine now over 50% more expensive. Significant IMF money loaned to fix the country being allocated to military(Nationalist army) spending. Gas sold to Chevron and Shell. Gold gone to New York. Fuel subsidies kaput. New taxes New charges Average persons pensions wiped out 25%+ of exports to Russia now lost, also lost revenue and debt reduction from Russia due to military cooperation. So, Crimea will face a harsh economic reality joining Russia? Welcome to the EU Ukraine. Welcome to Austerity, welcome to unemployment, massive financial and social inequality. People must remember, unlike other countries who were ruined once they took the bailout plan, Ireland for example, Ukraine was bankrupt before austerity, the average Ukrainian faces a far worse time than most other bailed out nation peoples, worse than Greece. I will give it 4 years of austerity before the **** kicks off there again. Look at Spain, more people protest there than in Ukraine and it gets little or no coverage as the protests are anti EU and anti Austerity. I also notice the Spanish can protest without wrecking the place and killing people.
here why don't you sell the f'rs to russia then and stop whining on about it and the eu or is it the case this is the latest fun thing to watch... cos syria is now boring?
You really want to talk about Syria? What's happening there, if you bothered to follow anything you would know I have already referenced the focus having switched away from Syria, that the US and UK are fueling a civil war by arming the rebels along with Turkey, Turkey who started the ****ing war in tandem with you know who. Never mind that this is a Ukraine War thread People say oh stop the EU bashing ect, the post you posted after doesn't mention Russia. I have seen first hand what the EU does to a country that's full in and have had their sovereignty removed in Ireland. That's why I am anti EU. The UK has not handed it's sovereignty over to the EU, so you wouldn't have a ****ing clue what it means when that happens, ask the Spanish or Greeks. The average joe gets to pay to save a failed Union. $9 billion made from 6 million people, profit for the IMF from Ireland. The truth emerges slowly though. Ukraine was offered austerity package from the EU and Russia offered 15billion to buy Ukraine state bonds, increasing the value of their currency to boot, no strings attached. If facts appear you as pro Russia that's your problem. I am not pro Russia I am anti hypocrisy. The massive media coverage of the anti gay laws in Russia which I don't agree with at all. Russia has allowed gays in the military since the early 90s. Obama had to tell his military leadership to back the new law or resign, gays allowed in US military 2011. That's the hypocrisy I hate. Hardly makes me pro Russia does it. State law passed in Mississippi recently, people have a right to refuse service based on religious beliefs, in other words, you're gay I am not serving you. I didn't read much about that in the media. The Irish state do not even recognise gay people exist. Uganda is it? introduced the death penalty and it got a mere fraction of the attention Russia's laws?! Then the there was the Sochi bashing. While I am not pro Russia when you see this constant stream of propaganda designed to condition an attitude in the public it get ****ing annoying. I post some stuff, you either agree or you don't fine, but having a go at me rather than of the information I posted, not sure what motivates than given you are not forced to read this thread at all? It's like freedom of speech is OK as long as you like what is being said, Dave made that pretty clear a few posts back.
Some dude was on the radio the other day blathering on about how vital it now was to build this super-duper gas line from Ukraine to the EU through Poland and Hungary. Been the plan all along, if you ask me. Putin is a ****, undoubtedly, but if Mexico did a Chavez and went leftwards I should imagine the US wouldn't just stand there idly while their borders allied with Russia or, say, North Korea. The certainly didn't over Cuba. And what if Scotland decided to start harbouring Russian subs in Faslane when they become independent? That said, there was recently a drama on the Beeb about the run-up to the First World War, and it was stated that the 'Continental' system of diplomacy that had, sort of, kept the peace on mainland Europe (bar 1848 and also the Franco-Prussian war, most evidently) was built upon hypocrisy, double-standards and humbug. Maybe all diplomacy is thus.
Sisu I'm surprised not to see any comment about the investigation in Ukraine where they have now said government forces did fire on and kill around 90 protestors. Or do you only post the updates which support your view of the situation?
Wow... haven't read this in a long time... What a load of rubbish! lol So- in the week or so that I've barely been on: Tartars (who make up 12-15% of population) now want to secede from Crimea. I'm sure the Russians will allow this. Wait... they want to be part of Russia don't they... 100-15 > 97% they mustn't really want to secede! LOL. Of course Russia should be bothered by NATO. We do have them surrounded... for the very purpose that they are a threat. It's a hostile non-democracy that constantly send war planes into neighbouring airspace to check response time and how long it takes for them to be told to leave. Our relationship with Russia HAD been improving until Putin took over, went the totalitarian route and removed true democracy. Their top allies are countries like Syria, Iran, Belarus, and North Korea (and until recently Libya and Saddam's Iraq). Hardly a well respected group of associates. Not saying how the West behaves in respect to these countries is anything admirable... but these are asshole states and far worse than NATO, EU, or "the west" in terms of personal freedoms and civil rights. (west has problems too- no denying). I personally think it is irrelevant whether the EU is a good guy or a bad guy in regards to Ukraine. I also suspect that with most Russian sympathisers there is a certain agenda here to support Russia for reasons other than thinking they are right in Ukraine. To my knowledge not one nation-state has come to Russia's backing- not even their allies in Iran, Syria, or North Korea.
Europe's dependency on Russian gas is way overstated. Europe has been consuming less and less of Russian gas for a quite a while. Europe has a lot of redundency in terms of the means to import gas. The real deal here mate is far more money than gas. 1 You change the regime, the side you backed has agreed to open the country up. 2 You place debt on the heads of the population, you load the country with debt, cos debt is very profitable, 49 million people in Ukriane, Ireland's 6 million people provided the IMF with $9 billion profit, what about 49 million in a country much poorer than Ireland was with a shattered economy that was dependent on trade with Russia in such desperate times. 3 Your backed regime strips national assets and sells them, mostly to US and EU companies, meaning Ukrainians pay much more for services. 4 You take the gold as the dollars given to Ukraine are worthless outside of the electronic system they move about in as we know dollars are created out of thin air, UK pounds to with nothing to back them.. 5 The currency gets devalued against the dollar making the loans even more profitable 6 Once that's all set then the predators move in to buy up everything at dirt cheap prices. This is the wholesale sacking of a country by corporate interests and the international banking cartel. How people cannot see that is beyond me, it's ****ing obvious. Cheney's Halliburton will amke a fortune replacing the hardware the US military flogs to Ukraine too. The new "government" don't care what the EU and IMF want to impose for the loans, they just want the billions of $ and will agree to anything. The Russia deal, which we hear little about was Russia buying Ukraine bonds giving Ukraine liquidity and this would increase the currency value and the countries rating. The EU deal involved financial control from Europe and austerity and currency devaluation which is what is happening as we speak, easier to also loot the country if the currency is worth **** all. All of this adds up to significantly more money than any gas concerns. But look at it another way. Who benefits from Ukraine's situation? US defence budget, they get their money. Banks Corporate. Now we have another "Cold War" which should keep the US tax payers money flowing into the Pentagon and therefor the military contractors, like Cheney's Halliburton. It's all a ****ing sham. I will tell you this as far as Crimea goes, we all think we understand this and that, from the comments I've seen it's clear people are in fact brainwashed by propaganda. In Crimea, how many people died at the hands of the Nazis? There are so many there who have had family who died at the hands of the Nazis, Russians paid 20 million lives, the US and UK, not even a million between them, to defeat Hitler and the Nazis. When you see the EU and US stand beside Nazis in Ukraine like Oleh Tyahnybok, standing shoulder to shoulder with Nuland and McCain and EU politicians. Given Russian history with Nazis, over 20 MILLION people, generations wiped out. How on earth do people not believe Crimea looked at this and thought **** THAT I want away from this nazi ****. How can we even remotely understand how Russians in Crimea feel towards Nazis, and that's what makes me irritated with people like Milk talking about rigged elections when he doesn't know the first thing about Crimea or understand their history in this subject.
The BBC said it was police. The new "Ukrainian government" said the police had a sniper unit deployed. They said they have detained them and they have not offered one shred of proof. It's an inquiry that has produced no accused either, nothing. Yet you have a an EU minister saying in a leaked call that there is evidence that the bullets were from the same gun and that the buildings controlled by Maidan held the snipers, given the directions people were shot from ect, also, why would the police shoot police? WE WERE NOT MEANT TO HEAR THAT CALL and if it was not leaked we would never have heard about this evidence, even said on the call that "the new government will not investigate" so a US or EU directed fake inquiry to shift the blame was created imo. Lets not get bogged down in who said what though, even the leaked call with Ashton was not proof Maidan did it. use logic and ignore the noise and think for yourself. Who did it benefit? Why would police snipers shoot police? What tactical reasoning would allow for such a decision given the police took an absolute battering from these flash mobs for months and why did they start killing AFTER the deal with Maidan was signed by government? I think it is worth considering that in Homs during peaceful protests with some scuffles, it happens, even in the UK, protestors engage the police. Though in homs in Syria in 2011 an unknown sniper or snipers killed 7 police and 4 protestors and the government was blamed. Again unknown snipers shooting people on both sides during protests in a country NATO is not friends of the ruling regime. The risk was that if they allowed elections in Syria and Assad got voted in again there was nothing that could be done to tarnish that, it had to be war. Once the shootings took place and tensions rose that was the perfect time to start sending in the jihad fighters. Look at Ukraine, Non NATO friendly government, peaceful protest, turns violent, unknown sniper kills people on both sides. The difference is Assad didn't back down and war ensued where as Ukraine's government had already agreed deals with the protestors and Maidan. The sniper killings were after Maidan and the opposition reneged on the deal. At some point you have to look at it and think well, this is all too familiar, not proof but to me and to millions it looks like a bog standard regime change brought about by the usual near or literal civil war. Ukraine might not be finished with breaking up either, the eastern Ukraine issues still remain and you have the nationalists attempting a brutal crackdown there. We are not hearing that in the media though.
Russian military installations outside of Russia. about 10 American military installations outside of the US, about 3,000 Who's looking to create an empire again? I think what this shows though is that the US military complex needs threats to sustain funding for this massive defence budget to sustain such a massive military operation. 46 million Americans on food stamps and they have 3,000 bases around the world and trillions worth or hardware. Something is imbalanced imo
12 individuals from the police have been accused so far so not sure about there being no accused. Only 8 people where shot by the same gun, almost 90 where shot and killed in total. It's also clear bullets where fired from multiple buildings. Or that is what is being reported currently. Which doesn't fit with anything you've said.
Us military spending is insane. Huge black holes in the budgets as well so that it's unclear where the funding is actually used.
It's a pathetic situation mate, the primary cause of destabalisation is poverty and equality and instead of sorting that out they spend over 10 times more dealing with the consequences. So the only winners are those that make money from war and those that get to pick the carcass afterwards. Military industry, banks and corporations. The defence spending is literally just a conduit for money to pass from the tax payer to corporations and the also used by the Pentagon for secret operations that are required to open doors to allow the latter two (banks (IMF) n corporations) into a country to sack it. For those in this thread that mentioned peaceful protestors. Here are the "peaceful Protestors" or rather the flash mobs that made sure all hell broke lose. [video=youtube;yHAywlBxFFQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yHAywlBxFFQ[/video]
Don't know whether this link will work, Sis, but there's a fine article in our union magazine (which is page 28, and you don't need a password to view it). http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/
I couldn't see it there matey. Donetsk, Lugansk, and Kharkov all kicking up a **** storm atm. Donetsk looking for independence referendum now, The US with their bullshit regime change have torn that country to pieces. Before anyone leaps onto the Putin at it again wagon keep in mind the history of the country with Nazis. can any of us really understand how they feel about seeing EU and US politicians stand next to Nazis, only a full on ****tard would not see that naturally Russians or ethnic Russian Ukrainians and yes even Ukrainians would prefer union with Russia over a group they have a visceral hatred for that exterminated so many of their people.
If the British media is anything to go by looks like I will be a Russian citizen soon! This is the most ridiculous piece of fear mongering claptrap I have read for a while, ALL BBC Ukraine reports apart of course, BBC propaganda on Syria and Ukraine is so obvious, shocking that people believe that **** they publish, then again people believe the Daily Fail. Vladimir Putin ‘wants to regain Finland’ for Russia, adviser says http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-finland-for-russia-adviser-says-9224273.html
