The Official Man Utd & Liverpool plus Chelsea, Everton and City Banter Thread!

So why do you want to do the same and get rid of moyes? He should be given time, atleast 5 years. It's the united way!

#moyesin

 

Only managers head I've ever called for was Scolari.

A lot of people just didn't like AVB's attitude and how quickly he looked to change things, we were later proved correct by winning the double with his assistant.

 

The only way I am changing my mind on Moyes is if;

A. He shuts up and never speaks again

B. Stops playing Young and Valencia. There is no excuse.

C. Mounts a respectable challenge next season

If he won the CL this season I would still want him gone, anyone can win the CL as has been proven many times but for me its the league. Push for the title next season and my lack of faith might start to change.

This is the minimum to be expected of any United manager these days. Anything less is a failure.

 

I don't want to get rid of Moyes, I was just pulling him up on saying all our opinions keep flip flopping game after game, when I'm sure Chelsea's fans opinions have flip flopped many times about there various managers.

I'm happy to give Moyes until Xmas to turn things around. Give him the summer to bring in a few new players, and get rid of a few, and then see how we fair in the first 20 or so games next season, but if we're still hanging around in 7th then I think it's time for a change, but at the moment I'm happy to give Moyes the benefit of the doubt

 

What if he spends £150m on mediocre players?

 

When did we start discussing Kenneth?

 

That's the chance you take, though if we sacked him his replacement could spend 150 million on mediocre players. You have to trust the managers judgement, I'm sure any player we spend big on will be properly scouted, so it won't just be Moyes judgement

 

Downing was sold too early he'll show his worth in Brazil.........is he in the squad?

 

That's the big gamble, do you let Moyes have the money and if he fails it's on his head or do you panic now replace him and take that chance with a new man in charge?

 

Option B for me. Dont see the point waiting to see if moyes comes good.

Given enough money he will win a league cup or 2 during his time. However with the money being branded about 2 league cups would be an epic failure.

 

You rate the squad though where others don't, if Moyes isn't given the chance to build his own team then you'll never know if he could have done well.

I'm of the opinion that the squad is your problem, there's not enough quality there the young players are not good enough and the senior players too old, there's the basis of a good team there but whoever come in needs to spend.

 

I'm of the opinion we have a far superior squad to Liverpool and Arsenal. Spurs and everton dont even come into it.

That would suggest the problem is the guy leading it.

The 'United have a poor squad' myth stems from us winning the Pl by 11 points and our rivals being poor.

that leaves us with a question, who did our rivals sign to turn them from rubbish sides into good sides?

this is where the myth falls down. few players were signed. The changes were managerial at all 3 clubs. Again this suggests the manager is at fault.

 

The league this year has been very poor, and if SAF was still in charge UTD would be top

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26729956

 

The truth lies somewhere in the middle imo.

As, the influence of SAF was massive and did add substantially to the overall performance of the side. That doesn't make Moyes a duffer, it just makes him human, as SAF was the best the game has ever seen.

That said, he's still under performed, as despite the limitations of the squad in certain areas, it was still capable of top 4 imo. There's no way Arsenal with Giroud as their only striker should be 11 points ahead of them at this stage.

 

Personally I still think it's largely a momentum and mental issue. SAF made the team far greater than it was - over the past seven seasons our squad was largely equal to Chelsea's and from 2010 largely equal to City's, but over those seasons we won five titles, only barely lost out on the other two, and reached three CL finals.

This season our squad quality has dropped off a little as RVP, Rio, Vidic, Carrick and Giggs have really started showing their age and Scholes has retired, and we've obviously lost quite a lot with SAF going. We should still be able to get top four comfortably, probably top three, but our players aren't used to not being up the top. A few bad results have caused mental doubts to appear, which most of them haven't had for years, and so they've started making basic errors and struggling to do anything right. It's a lot like Liverpool from 2009 to 2010 - their squad didn't turn **** overnight, but they started believing the hype about being good enough to challenge for the title, had a few bad results and ended up adrift, and mentally collapsed into 7th.

The corollary of that is Liverpool this season - they haven't really improved their squad, and like UIR says they are behind us and Arsenal in terms of depth, and probably about level with Spurs and Everton. But they've strung some good results together, Suarez has hit the form of his career, and suddenly they're flying and getting results, whereas a couple of seasons ago they'd have been dropping points every other week. The net result is a massive confidence boost and momentum which sees them challenging for the title against vastly superior teams.

The biggest thing we've lost with SAF is that confidence and unshakeable mentality. That's something that no other manager can really impart on the same level imo, and given how long SAF had to drill it into the players it was always likely to have a much larger effect than you'd imagine from just looking at the squads and league on paper.

 

Good to see you back Swarbs.

I agree with your last post, thare has to be more to it than Moyes now being the manager and you hit the nail on the head with this part......

There's a good chance that even SAF would have struggled to get your team to win the league this season, I'm sure he would have got more out of them than Moyes but still he would have had to rebuild and now that's in Moyes hands.

 

This

 

No chance, imo the league hasn't been poor and I don't see even SAF winning it with the current crop of players but I concede that he would have done better than the current manager.

 

Dunno if I'd say I'm back, I generally only come on here now when I have time to kill, which isn't all that much nowadays.

Dunno about that tbh - he's gotten more out of worse squads than our current one before, and I'm sure he had his own plans to rebuild the team (Garay would have made a big difference for one), which fell by the wayside a bit when Moyes came in and decided to take his own approach to it. We certainly wouldn't have strolled it, but I reckon we'd be up there with a shout right now, given how average most of the rest have been, and how fine some of our defeats have been this year.

The problem is that the small drop off in performance across the squad has triggered a big drop off on the mental side, and that's what's cost us a good 15 points thus far this season, put us out of the domestic cups, and almost saw us out of the CL.