www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26708832 Excuses,excuses,excuses,don't you just love them? Professional footballers earning more money in one week than most earn in a year,unable to play an extra game now and then,how pathetic. I seem to remember 6/7 changes being made for Europa games,so go figure. Doubtless someone will provide more accurate figures,but the vast majority of the players would not have been exactly worked to death. The team are where they are because they are NOT GOOD ENOUGH,and the Europa League is used here as a smokescreen to mask that reality. I know we had injuries,so has every other team. Likewise poor refereeing decisions.etc.,etc.,etc. Some blame the size of squad,well who chose that option then? Perhaps expectations were too high at the start of the season,and the fact that the Club is now in some kind of turmoil,having to fight for Premier League survival,is proving a bitter pill to swallow. At least we had two good season's,whereas Cardiff are in a worse mess,and it's only their first season. Will Swansea survive the drop? Not being a big fan of the Premier League,my view changes on a daily basis. The treatment meted out to Michael Laudrup has left a sour taste in my mouth, and somewhat tarnished my view of the management team,leaving me rather ambivalent about our "top table "status,so relegation wouldn't upset me as it will many others,and I accept that. The Club has lost it's way. Perhaps the Premier League was a League too far,too high. The Management have shown they lack the class and style to justify their exalted positions. Just my opinions,of course,as I sup my early morning coffee,and I know I will be enraging many by having the temerity to express them so openly.
That's a bit of a narrow minded view there Vetch, in regards to how the EL has affected us, as yes a professional player should be able to play the extra game, but then for away games, which we have played 6? they don't just lose the 1 day of training, they lose upto 3, the day before, and the day after due to travelling and rest. Its no suprise that teams have always been known to struggle after a midweek fixture, its not about not being able too, its about being able to at maximum effort. The margins at the top are small, and unless you can play 100% in a game, your going to struggle. Think of it this way: Wednesday travel to wherever Thursday play a game Friday - rest after travellign home Saturday - Train - maybe even travel if away. Sunday - Play a game Yet our oppsition who are not in Europe Wednesday - Train Thursday - Train Friday - Train Saturday - Rest Sunday - Play If you honestly believe that the difference in schedule does not have an effect on the pitch, then am sorry, but your wrong. We are not Man City, or Chelsea who can put out two first 11's, or have top notch players, who demand that value because they are fit enough to do it. And I don;t mean in a way that can be achieved by working at the fitness levels, I mean physical fitness that comes natural sort of thing. Football players could play a game every day of the week, but its impossible for them to play 100% every day of the week, and not be affected.
"Narrow view" it may be swans,but it's surely not beyond the capabilities of PROFESSIONAL footballers to go the extra mile,and justify their vast earnings. As I intimated,team changes were made to exculpate the wear and tear of travelling,etc.,but now we hear that the European adventure may cost the Club it's top table status. Well,considering the amount of money likely to be forfeited as a result of relegation,embarking on the Europa trail was a foolhardy decision long term. That's if it was believed that a small squad would struggle to perform in the wake of Europa involvement. Clearly the Club thought they could cope. As a point of interest,how many games have we played post Europa,i.e.,no travelling etc.,and how many points accrued?
Exactly spot on! Money can't preform miracles, it can come into the debate as giving 100% for the club but not for congested fixtures. I think problem this season was that we had too many injuries to be able to rotate the team enough to compete. I think the plan was something like: PL HOME Vorm Rangel, Chico, Ash, Davies Britton, JDG Dyer, Michu, Routledge Bony EL HOME TREMMEL Tiendalli, Amat, Ash, Taylor Canas, Shelvey Hernandez, michu, Poz Bony PL away Vorm Rangel, Chico, Ash, Davies Britton, JDG Dyer, Michu, Routledge Bony EL away Tremmel Tiendalli, Chico, Amat, Taylor Canas, Shelvey Poz, Michu, Hernandez Vazquez Subbing key players like michu, Ash and Bony. Obviously it's a simplistic view and tactics would also have come into team selections, but it shows the limitations we had during the Europa league due to injuries this season. Vorm Canas Dyer Hernandez Shelvey Michu Britton
In answer to my question,re points accrued,I reply to myself,because clearly no-one else is going to. I wonder why? Swans' 1 Crystal Palace 1 Swans' 1 WBA 2 Everton 3 Swans' 2 So,by my mathematics,that's ONE point in Three games,with NO European distractions to hang excuses on. Oh,and two of those were regularly described as "winnable and easy" fixtures,and were AT HOME!!! Excuses are for losers,sorry guys.
But I do agree that PL has changed Swansea city and not all for the best. And the sacking of ML in the way it was done with no real explanation was insulting to the paying fans.
I blame recent results on monks inept tactics. Everton I would not expect anything from but WBA and CP has no excuses IMO
So how does this explain why we have been actually worse since exiting the Europa league? Clutching at straws IMO . I'm quite sure the likes of Rangel and Williams played more games in the championship then in the prem Europa ,laudrup mixed the team up every game to ensure most got a rest. Wigan ? Doing well in the championship,playing much more games than us ? Europa had an effect but players are always known for using any excuse other than look at themselves. Under Sousa,it was the training, then they started playing well so that went quiet. Under laudrup it was the training on the USA tour,3 wins on the bounce and that went quiet. This season under laudrup it was the training once again. Then it was the injuries. Now it's the Europa league. Does tiredness make us defend really ****e and miss chances in front of goal? No.
I didn't see the Everton game,swan,and I was also expecting a (heavier) defeat. The s**t has hit the fan in the wake of the two shocking results against CP,and Albion,and it's really backs to the wall now. Those dropped points could come back and haunt the Club. I really don't think this lot are up for the scrap ahead,they have f****d up big time,and I don't think they are deserving of anyone making excuses for their ineptness.
I tend to agree with you Lib on the whole. I think expectations are too high for a club of our resources. But that's human nature! Saying that, we've already proven ourselves as a mid table side so challenging for a top half place shouldn't be beyond reason. Players earn ridiculous amounts of money because that's the going rate, not necessarily because they're actually worth it This then can inflate their estimation of themselves.
We were on the road to success up till Dec 15 when Michu started the injury melee. On track to get 48 points in the Premier and into the 2nd round of Europa . Up till that point we played16 Premier League games and 11 Europa Cup games . Thats a lot of games within a short time frame with very good success with no excuses neccessary .When all is said and done there will be 2 reasons for our demise since Dec 15 , INJURIES AND THE BOARD.
Because we sacked the manager, a move I do not understand in any way shape nor form. I think of all the things done this season, that move alone will cost us our survival, I never once was worried under ML, I have been nothing but worried since he has gone. So not clutching at straws, but to say the Europa hadn't affected us is laughable. The fact is players can play more than 1 game a week, but its not possible to play with the same purpose and intent as a fresh team, and to think otherwise is naive. The players may well be earning a hell of a lot of money, but at the end of the day they are human beings, there is only so much the human body can tolerate in a short space of time, and at a high level. You work yourself in to the ground for a few days, then have a few days at regular rate, and tell me, at the end of each shift, which one will you recover from better? Its part of the way we are. And to expect professionals not to struggle is as I said, naive. Go ask Spurs, who on weekend games after EL fixtures have picked up. Swansea (h) W Arsenal (a) L Cardiff (a) W West Ham (h) L Hull (h) W Newcastle (h) L Man UTd (h) D Liverpool (h) L Norwich (a) L Arsenal (h) L Southampton (h) W So Spurs picked up 13 points from 11 games after the Europa League, so 13 from 33, which is a 39% rate of points. Yet you sit tehre and think we should do better? Laughable.
In those 11 games, spurs played 7/11 at home Lets look at ours: Spurs (a) L WBA (a) W Palace (a) W Southampton (a) L West Ham (h) D Stoke (h) D Man City (a) L Norwich (a) D Liverpool (a) L Palace (h) D So of our 10 games directly after EL games, we took 10/30 points = 33% points rate. Which is not great BUT 7/10 of ours were away, so even less time to relax after our EL games as we had travelling to do. So if spurs struggled, why do you expect us to be better? So here is our game week for a few weeks this season. Sunday - Match (Prem) Monday - Rest Tuesday - Train Wednesday - Travel Thursday - Away Match (EL) Friday - Rest Saturday - Train and Travel Sunday - Away Match (prem) Yet our opponents bar Spurs, Man City had Sunday - Rest Monday - Train Tuesday - Train Wednesday - Train Thursday - Train Friday - Train Saturday - Rest Sunday - Home Game (Prem) Yes, I see your point, how can our guys not put in an equal performance to these teams that play once a week, I mean they are professionals right? Shock horror!!!!
Also vetch, can only answer you if I am here, which I was not, so have a bit of patience, and you may have gotten your answer.
My question wasn't targetted at you swans,it was a throw away,aimed at no-one in particular. I'm well aware that posters drift in and out of the Forum,I do it myself. All these statistics are very interesting,but don't hide the fact that the team has underachieved big time - before Europe;during Europe,and now,after Europe. I'm waiting for someone to produce stats showing the number of wrong decisions made by match officials;how many penalties we should have had,etc.,etc. Then take into consideration player's diets,what they eat,what time they go to bed,etc.,etc. Statistics can be made to suit whatever point you are trying to make,but MY point doesn't need ANY statistician to be involved,viz,the squad ain't good enough,and that's a FACT!!!
Well vetch , explain how we were averaging 1.25 points per game in the Premier our first 16 games while playing 11 Europa games amongst those Premier league games , getting us into the 2nd round ofEuropa , if we were playing so bad up till Dec15.
Our squad is good enough, at least for the Premier League, if it was not we would be sat in the bottom 3 regardless, facts are there, we are NOT in the relegation zone, not yet at least, therefore, as things stand, there are 5 teams worse than us this season. And I can use stats to back that up to prove it as fact, you on the other hand have nothing to prove your point that we are not good enough when the table, as things stand tells us otherwise.
