There were many cases of civilians targeted because they were in the "area". Also shooting up civilian structures out of frustration or whatever, an officer went down recently too did he not, for taking a captured enemy who was seriously injured and executed him and vid cam'd it. the RAF as per have killed their share with strikes and lets not forget there are drone missions flying out of the UK, admitted or not it's happening and they kill more civilians than suspected terrorists. During the course of an illegal invasion as per international law in Iraq, Russia did very little while the UK and US blew that country to **** and thousands of civilians with it. Never mind the UK and US outsourced torture to Shiite squads who strung up whole families by their legs with electrical cable and beat the **** out of them, electricution and **** like that, and quite often they died in their hands.
For you Milk, peaceful protestors eh. it's a fail piece, it is pretty much a copy of other sources which is pretty much the fail style, copy, edit a few bits, publish. I knew this anyway I even mentioned it on this thread I think, the Nationalists deploying snipers. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-ousted-president-opposition-drove-power.html
Not. It was a Marine sgt who 'executed' a fatally injured Taliban 'fighter'. Very wrong, but I doubt that the Taliban sent to prison any of the gang that captured, tortured and mutilated that Scottish lad who - idiotically - wondered off in the night looking for his goggles. That said, I wouldn't argue that British and other coalition forces have killed nearly as many innocent civilians in Afghanistan as the Taliban have. We shouldn't be there.
Sisu, I definitely have reservations about the EU too. I believe fundamentally the idea of a large free trading zone is in everyone's interests. I think they have too much power currently though. If the daily fail article is true that is bad for those involved and they should be punished. Still doesn't change my opinion that Russia is illegally occupying Crimea and it is in no ones best interest. The announced referendum would be a good thing if Russia weren't there. I don't know if we can trust the outcome. I doubt independent observers will be allowed in. I would love to know the true results. I'm sure almost universally Tartars and Ukrainians would vote no. The Russian speakers are slight majority; although according to BBC; people they speak to in Crimea in general don't all want to join Russia. They want their rights and their language protected. I'd love to know what % really do want to join Russia. You can guarentee vote will be yes regardless of what they really vote. Russia would lose too much face if turned down. Conversely, no one will believe them now if they really do want to join Russia. People will claim its rigged if the vote is yes... even if they do vote yes. Referendum should have happened without Russian occupation. Allow Russia and UN to observe it was fair vote.
I also think its worth noting these guys are out fighting in a war and the lines of morality can become blurred when your watching your friends die. Don't think actions taken during combat situations can be judged by the same standards as crime committed during peace.
AnnnnnnDDDDD Here you have it folks, this is what joining the EU means for Ukrainians. The coup installed government is already employing EU austerity. I'm fairly confident that much of this was discussed before any even protests began.
Wonder how long it will be before the EU appoints an unelected bureaucrat to oversee these austerity measures? Then a Murdoch/Mail-type media will bombard its citizens how necessary it all is, while the City of London and Wall St will rape all their natural resources through exciting 'privatisations'. And in five years, when the deprived underclass of Ukrainians arrive at our shores looking to do whatever **** jobs we don't want to do, the Mail and the Sun will scream about immigrants coming here and taking our jobs and welfare. Makes yer proud to be a Western, liberal, capitalist democracy, don't it just?
If Ukraine wants to be part of the eu it will have to meet certain criteria financially. Greece where allowed to ignore this criteria but still join and look how that turned out. I'm not pro-eu at all but some people seem to look for any excuse to have a moan.
Holy cow! They just killed weird Al Yanocovich. Russia announced he has had a "heart attack"; guess he wasn't quite the puppet they were after. Wonder how the west will react to this assassination? They didn't exactly love him either.
Thought he'd be made to drink the polonium 210 tea, tbh. Guess the Ruskies will have to find a more efficient satrap.
Crimea's referendum to join Russia is "a mockery of proper democratic practice", says UK Foreign Secretary William Hague So here we have it, 95%+ vote to join Russia, international observers say no interference at all. Lets break it down to the very simple. EU US support a violent overthrowing of an elected government by a self appointed coup nationalist gang who are trying to suppress the country and take complete control through violence threats and murder. EU US do not support a democratic vote by the people of Crimea who do NOT want to be controlled by said violent racist gangs and have moved in a democratic manner to distance themselves from a government they never elected. So according to the UK and US, violent armed takeover good, vote to decide your own future bad. The banning of Russian is a clue folks, who bans languages in a democracy? Expect a nice hike in Gas prices in Europe. Reminds me of how the UK France Italy and Germany helped Franco take Spain because the republicans accepted help from the only country offering help, Russia, Spain has never recovered from that war and Franco's tyrannical reign
Sounds on par with Saddam Husseins 99% votes in the elections. Robert Mugabe's constant election demolitions despite being hugely unpopular and North Korea's 99% approval ratings of all the Kims. During the soviet era government approval was always within a few % of 100%... even in countries like Hungary right before they rebelled and try to kick the communists out. Almost nothing gets 97% agreement from people. Certainly nothing political. Considering only 58% of the population is ethnically Russian. The other groups hate Russia, and the 30 somethings and younger who are ethnically Russian were fairly split in opinion in regards to Russia. When you see numbers like 90 something % in favour of one political group over another you know it is rigged/fake/propoganda. I would be in favour of a proper referendum and Crimea having right to self determination... remove the Russian occupation first and have it run properly and legitimately... like the referendum in Scotland. Let them debate the issue first... not say: "We're holding a referendum next week. Try to ignore the tank in your front lawn... vote wisely."
Sorry mate, absolutely awful argument you made there you use sophist arguments like "Sounds on par with Saddam Husseins 99% votes in the elections. Robert Mugabe's constant election demolitions despite being hugely unpopular and North Korea's 99% approval ratings of all the Kims" when you have no idea if the situations are in fact any way similar, given those were totalitarian states and not in any way related in situation as Crimea was already autonomous and had it's own regional government and the country was just taken over forcefully. How you can relate those is beyond any worthy logic. None of those "references" have anything to do with Crimea. To state "when you see 90+% in favour it must be rigged" without even a shred of any info to back it up, that's the internet for you, a typical groundless comment offered as some sort of proof. Sweet Jesus People like you bent on sticking to your erroneous dispositions will completely ignore the contradictions of this whole thing. You think Russia is a demon and the west is a saint. I get it. Well if you can actually stop using vague nonsense as debate points, offering not so similar instances to back your totally misguided beliefs then maybe you can answer the important questions on this, without again meandering off on some rant about North Korea and other such totally unrelated tripe. The US and EU have just said the democratic and internationally legal referendum was illegal? The US and EU said the forced takeover of a democratically elected government and imposition of control over those who did not elect the self appointed government was legal? The Irony is the country was literally taken over yet you all claim Russia is taking the country over, haven't the nationalists just done what the EU and US are claiming Russia is trying to do? Go figure, Ukrainians you say? internal matter? nope, Chechen other non Ukrainians are involved in the nationalist set-up. I guess you don't do contradictions. What about maidan hiring the snipers? media is very quiet on that, 2 weeks ago on this thread there was all the absolute ****e and drivel from idiots about Russian troops shooting civilians, there's some real brain dead people on here. The same lobotomy patients are keeping quiet about Maidan actually doing the killing strangely enough. THE ONLY KILLING DONE SINCE THE POWER GRAB HAS BEEN BY THE NATIONALISTS, they have killed nearly 10 people in the last 10 days around the country. Yep dodgy vote, look at all of these **** scared people. [video=youtube;iJPIkPPs_yw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iJPIkPPs_yw[/video] Suppose you'll tell me the tanks and armed soldiers making them cheer are just out of shot of the cameras
Who said Russia shot civilians on here? They did try to wipe out the Tartars (who make up more than 3% of the population btw) last time they occupied Crimea. I don't know which way a legitimate referendum would go, but I don't think even you believe that 97% of Crimeans would vote for Russia. When over 40% belong to populations previously abused by Russia. If 97% of the vote was pro Russia it is probably from the bus loads of Russians that Putin is shipping in. I don't know who Crimea would want. Certainly slightly more Russian ethnics than non Russians but even a sizable minority of them are opposed to Russia. If you can't see that 97% is fake, you're the only one in the west that doesn't see it. Heck... if you held a referendum in Liverpool to join Russia you'd get a more even vote than that, even though the idea is ludicrous.
Here's some free edu for you milk. A clearer picture of what it is all about as far as Ukraine goes. It also refers to the denial you suffer over the 97% vote from a high turnout for the referendum and how most western countries can only dream of such a turnout that they claim it can't be legitimate Denial. Sums you up mate. http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/03/18/the-paradigm-shattering-impacts-of-crimeas-landslide-vote/ The Ashton call leak. 8 minutes in they discuss the evidence of Maidan snipers killing both police and protestors and how the new Ukrainian government will not investigate, neither will the EU guaranteed. Someone mentioned to me today that this was what started off the **** big time in Syria, snipers taking out people on both sides a few years ago in Homms. [video=youtube;ZEgJ0oo3OA8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8&feature=player_embedded[/video]
So you really believe 97% of people in Crimea support Russia? Even the 20% who are ethnically Tartar and had their grand parents killed in large numbers by Russia? You honestly believe that? Its completely implausible. I could believe the majority support Russia... they probably do... And even if it were true: what harm would then come out of Russia releasing occupation and allowing and independently monitored referendum instead? With that much support what fear could they have that things would go their way in a fair election? The are correct ways to do things. Having armed soldiers at an election booth and having state TV showing mushroom clouds and threatening to nuke the west is not one. That's way more North Korea style voting charade than it is true democracy. Putin "democracy" is much closer to being Saddam Hussein (99%) than Obama, Cameron, or Merkel. No one is going to believe a 97% vote whilst Russian soldiers are everywhere and manning the polling stations. I suspect the people that voted were not Crimeans but the Russian who have been arriving on scores of buses from Russia. If 97% supported Russia, why do they have to have so many soldiers in the streets and squares? You only need to have such a strong military presence when there is opposition. Sorry, but I have difficulty believing anyone really thinks the 97% is accurate. It is obvious propaganda. Just like so many dictators. Just like his TV news threats to nuke the West. 97% in such a divided region just isn't credible.
hypocrite, it's pretty simple from your viewpoint. US pulls off a standard regime change op in Ukraine, all good. Russia becomes involved, the brain dead clown hysteria time begins.
LMAO! BBC is all about Pro Russia Crimean groups taking control of a naval base. But taking over Ukraine by force was all OK Is this not just what the Nationalists did with a whole country with EU US backing? Anyone remember Cuba? When Russia attempted to install themselves on the USA's front doorstep. How did the US react? nearly WWIII Now NATO try to install themselves in Sevastopol right on Russia's door step. How that cannot be seen as an act of aggression is ridiculous. Ukraine have already applied to join NATO, have given deals to two Energy corps that the previous government refused, Chevron and Shell were told to **** off by the elected government, low and behold there's a coup and now Shell (jan) and Chevron (this week) already have deals signed, that was quick. Ukraine has been a geopolitical target for nearly 20 years, Ukraine Syria and Iran are primary targets for regime change, with Iran already having suffered a US regime change already which has actually fueled the current unfriendly status with the US and West. Now what we may have is another US proxy war in Ukraine. What is sickening and pathetic is the absolute garbage the media is publishing while everyone just accepts Israel's brutal oppressive occupation of Palestine for 47 years and all the talk is about the Crimea where Palestinians can't even have electricity because the crossings get closed, something we all take for granted. What the EU and US say has no creditability whatsoever when Palestine can suffer as it does and the likes of Obama and Cameron unconditionally back a fascist state in Israel and here we have another fascist state in the making in Ukraine, banning languages FFS . Franco's fascist state in the making was backed by the UK Italy Germany and France. In Europe, no right to protest, no right to free speech, reporting on criminal activities is now deemed criminal as per Snowden and the fact Greedwald has to be in Brazil in order to commit the crime of real investigative journalism is just another box ticket on the way to total fascism.
