People such as Thatcher and Crow polarise opinion simply because they were strong and single minded in pursuit of their goals. I suspect people generally assess either individual firstly and foremost from their, i.e. the assessor's, political standpoint. If you're more left-leaning it stands to reason that your sympathies will lie more with Crow than with Thatcher. If you're more right-leaning you're more likely to be fair on the achievements of Maggie than Bob. In many respects both individuals were of similar character; you'd rather either was on your side than an adversary. That Crow fought staunchly for the rights of his members is undeniable. That was his job and he did it well. That his pursuit of this was occasionally at odds with the greater good, i.e. the provision of uninterrupted services to the general public, is also true. That Thatcher's policies improved the productivity and prosperity of Britain after a miserable decade of industrial action and decay is also true, as is the fact that the pursuit of these policies was often to the detriment of the general social wellbeing of the nation as a whole. The 'haves' have in some cases become undeniably greedier and less tolerant or sympathetic of those less fortunate than themselves, whilst the 'have nots' have in some cases become embittered and hateful of those they see with more. But the gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' is widening not just because of so-called right-leaning policies. It is also widening in part because of poorly thought through and poorly executed welfare reform. Political parties from both sides of the divide have made mistakes so costly that we shall be paying for them for generations to come. P.S. For somebody that would leave the EU tomorrow if it were my decision, it is interesting to note that Bob Crow held a similar view (as I understand it). He saw the freedom to migrate within the EU to work as a threat to the job security of his members, I believe. I heard Farage the other day talking of how they often shared a platform together on this subject.
Shall we ask the people of the Falklands Islands this or shall I say 'Las Malvinas' to appease you, you complete tool.
uber hoop excellent post. thatchers greatest achievement was not privatisation, the Falklands war or even the reform of union rights, but changing the mind set of the nation to anti union and giving us all the belief that my personal rights are more important than yours. great polititians are in short supply Bob was according to question time a great negotiator and tactician as was Maggie and Tony Benn people who wanted and strived to deliver what they believed in rather than just promising jam tomorrow.
You can if you want she used that to save her career if you knew what you was talking about . She was mad and pulled on exactly the good old idiot British Army ethic that the Brits love Let's go to war and take things that aren't ours The islands are Argentina's anyway Let's ask people around you today about Gibraltar ... Good luck
Good post Uber Sorry but I hated her and the divide that era started ruined this country more . For those who can't grasp it I can explain it easily Look at London how rich is it? If you don't live in London what's your house worth ? How much money do you owe? Where is the centre of the world economy ? What would happen if all people withdrawn just their current accounts ? How many strangers say good morning to you if you walk 3 miles from your home? What does the UK make? Thatcher and the USA together accelerated the process of how you are today if you don't get it yet then you will have a nasty shock coming Keep on spending I'm alright Jack
Anyone who cheered anything the IRA or any terrorist organisation did is never, ever going to be right!
Opinions Col mate I personally do hold a lot of sympathy for the Irish cause back then I discovered early on at school that the British had done dreadful things around the world and then assumed we were righteous to do so Ian Gow was blown up 3 miles from my old house it was dreadful but even then I asked myself why won't the British listen ... Both sides were wrong but things escalate anywhere in the world when wrong has been done and a struggle develops whereupon the underdog will and can resort to any measures ... We don't ever see both points of the argument we brainwash and dictate . I have had many experiences during many years visiting Ireland and am proud that mine were found to be aligned with those people who suffered
La Asombrosa Excursión de Zamba en las Islas Malvinas ;-) [video=youtube;5Eh1B4a-RMA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eh1B4a-RMA[/video]
Re. the Falkland Islands. To the extent that I understand the history of the islands, their ownership has been a matter of dispute between Britain, Spain, France and Argentina on and off for around 400 years. When first discovered by Europeans the islands were uninhabited and generally remained so for about 200 years. Early attempts at settlement by Argentina were as half-hearted as those by the other protagonists until 1820 when Britain finally flexed its muscle over sovereignty. Other than Argentina's relative proximity to the Falklands compared with Britain, I see no other argument for their claim that holds any more water than Britain's. Argentina just drums up nationalism over the Malvinas in the same way that Britain does, but it seems there are people in Britain who will automatically side with Johnny Foreigner over their own country because their instinct is always that Britain is in the wrong on every occasion. It is also convenient to believe this in the case of Thatcher and the Falklands War because of an innate loathing of the late Iron Lady. I would be interested to learn what they would have done in her shoes once Argentina had invaded and, indeed, whether they believe it was her doing that they invaded in the first place.
This exactly seems to sum up DT. I also wonder what some of these "own country haters" would have done when confronted with the Nazis in the 30s? Excellent posts on this thread uber.
I have a different opinion and don't hate my country ... I am IMO a person who has questioned many of the wrong things this country has done and how it has acted I do not agree with UBer on the Falklands how you can then drop the nazis in beats me. I liked Bob Crow and hated Thatcher and saw the injustice of the Irish and their struggle I am proud I am aware of the state of this nations culture currently I am very certain that Mr Benn has made a lot of the brainwashed look silly I am proud I gave away the wealth that was given me just because I was born into money or had property that was then valued highly because of me being in the south. I am proud like my Irish grandfather who suffered badly I am proud of my cousins from SAS to currently still serving in Afghanistan all of which hold the same views now about the cons they sent on Proud to know the truth and not be a sheep
You say that you do not agree with me on the Falklands... What is it specifically that you do not agree with? Is my potted history incorrect? Do you believe Argentina's proximity to the islands is sufficient to carry their case for sovereignty? Do you disagree that Argentina use the Malvinas to drum up nationalism? Do you disagree with the inference that you automatically side with Argentina over Britain because you "hated Thatcher" and therefore you couldn't possibly agree with her over anything whatsoever? Had Argentina invaded under your watch would you have simply shrugged and let them have the islands? What is the "truth" to which you refer, is it more obtuse bollocks?
Why does Godwin always end up being invoked in every internet debate, regardless of the subject matter being discussed?
Maybe so Herr Ubes. The last thing I'm getting involved in is a Falklands debate so I'm staying well out of that one Was you at the game today mate? (PS Who the fupp are Bob Crow and Adele?)
