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The Official 2014 Australian GP Chat and Predictions

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by EternalMSC, Mar 5, 2014.

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2014 Turbo Revolution. All Change? Maybe?

Poll closed Mar 14, 2014.
  1. Sebastian Vettel

    4.2%
  2. Daniel Ricciardo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Kimi Raikkonen

    2.1%
  4. Fernando Alonso

    10.4%
  5. Kevin Magnussen

    4.2%
  6. Jenson Button

    6.3%
  7. Lewis Hamilton

    45.8%
  8. Nico Rosberg

    25.0%
  9. Romain Grosjean

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Pastor Maldonado

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Other (Oh yes...many will click here)

    2.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    In order of the race with race pace with the sums I calculated:

    Rosberg closely followed by Hamilton with Vettel by himself for 3rd against Bottas, Button, Alonso, Ricciardo fighting for 4th, then Massa , Hulk and Magnussen having it out for the bottom pot of points.

    So IMO:

    1st Rosberg
    2nd Hamilton
    3rd Vettel
    4th Bottas
    5th Button
    6th Alonso
    7th Ricciardo
    8th Massa
    9th Hulk
    10th Magnussen


    ROS-HAM>>VET>>BOT-BUT-RIC>ALO>>MAS-HUL>>>MAG>>PER-RAI
     
    #381
  2. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    No, has to be unleaded petrol that conforms to a certain standard and octane rating, essentialyl glorified pump fuel It is in the rules somehwere.

    Back in the 80's it wasn't really petrol that powered the cars, more an oil based chemical concoxction! BASF was developing fuels for the cars. There were potent and the fumes lethal, but really did produce more power than standard petrol. Got out of hand so the rules came in that basically made everyone use pump fuel.
     
    #382
  3. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    Helmut Marko already banging the drums it seems in saying that the car is almost back on track. Hulk also saying the back end of the Red Bull looks amazing to drive.
     
    #383
  4. BamalamaFizzVaj

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    If Hamilton wins i'd rather Vettel weren't on the podium at all, as Lewis will no doubt be taunting him in some embarrassingly shameless fashion.
     
    #384
  5. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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  6. BamalamaFizzVaj

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    :emoticon-0106-cryin
     
    #386
  7. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    And Horner saying they are losing almost a second to Mercedes on the straights, which means they're gaining in the corners.
     
    #387
  8. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    The red bull nose camera is a pretty cheeky solution. I assume legal even though it's so cheeky.

    please log in to view this image
     
    #388
  9. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Here's the relevant regs: http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8700/fia.html

    Whilst the fuel is closely related to what you get on the forecourt, there is some room to manoeuvre within the regs, and teams do run different mixes. I believe they can vary the composition for different races too.

    James Allen has a few interesting articles/videos about F1 fuel:
    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/how-f1-fuels-are-made/
    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/06/your-questions-answered-f1-fuels/
    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/08/how-close-is-f1-fuel-to-road-car-fuel/

    To get back to the question, different compositions will have different densities, so yes, your 100 kg of fuel could equate to a different volume depending on composition. How much use a greater volume would be is debatable I guess, my first question would be how much control do teams have over the amount of fuel present in each injection within the engine mapping?

    When teams were burning fuel for gains unrelated to the engine (eg aero, tyre warming, etc), then if the amount of fuel injected was constant, then I can see why playing with the density would be helpful. When off-throttle, injecting lower density fuel would mean wasting less energy whilst still getting the benefits from the exhaust, so would be helpful on tracks with a lot of braking, at a slight cost to acceleration. A higher density fuel would mean you're wasting more fuel to get similar benefits, causing drivers to have to turn the engines down for longer.

    Now the exhaust has been supposedly moved so the gases are useless, I can't see there being the same gains, and equally, if the engine map allowed different injection volumes when accelerating and braking, then you could just inject less when off-throttle, making lower density fuel unfavourable (as it's costing you acceleration when you're injecting the maximum possible volume, I think I've got the engine mechanics right here?). So this season, I'd expect teams to want the maximum possible energy density for the fuel, whatever volume of fuel that actually gives you. I think that makes sense?

    My mechanical engineering might be a bit dodgy in that, but I'd like to think the chemistry is sound. If you need someone to elaborate on the different components in the fuel, or the GCMS method they use to test samples, I can probably do a reasonable job of that.
     
    #389
  10. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    Mercedes might dominate the first 3-4 races but Red Bull could counter attack really hard earlier and never look back...

    please log in to view this image
     
    #390

  11. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    Im having a peter griffin daydream moment about putting F1 fuel in my car and all of a sudden it goes really fast :emoticon-0169-dance:emoticon-0162-coffe
     
    #391
  12. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Well apparently sticking road car fuel in a 2009 Ferrari (see my third link above I think?) only cost 0.9 s a lap around Fiorano, without optimising the engine to the new fuel, so somehow I doubt F1 fuel is going to help your road car too much, certainly not compared to the expensive road car fuel nobody buys. Sorry.
     
    #392
  13. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

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    ....or goes boom!
     
    #393
  14. Eat Sleep Watch F1 Repeat

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    The Red Bull didn't look amazing through the corners at all, it was good but there was sometimes oversteer on exit and a little bit of understeer on entry. I think some people are exaggerating slightly.
     
    #394
  15. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Ready to be flamed :) My understanding is that basically the air fuel ratio must be within a certain range (deviating when acceleration or deceleration is required). This is achieved my measuring the air being sucked into the engine and then adding the appropriate amount of fuel. On a normal car this is achieved by opening the injector for the appropriate duration as they flow a certain amount per second. They are either open or closed.

    As for fuel I was thinking if the rules allowed they could blend petrol to create a fuel that had the highest possible energy content and was the lightest in weight :)
    I used to work testing oil and lubricants and the companies behind them are very good at their chemistry. They could blend oils to pass the tests by minuscule margins.
     
    #395
  16. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    Well all the cars were about 3/4secs of last years pace

    2013
    FP1
    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]1 [/TD]
    [TD="class: country ger"]Sebastian Vettel [/TD]
    [TD="class: car-num"]1 [/TD]
    [TD="class: team"]Red Bull [/TD]
    [TD]1:27.211 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    FP2
    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]1 [/TD]
    [TD="class: country ger"]Sebastian Vettel [/TD]
    [TD="class: car-num"]1 [/TD]
    [TD="class: team"]Red Bull [/TD]
    [TD]1:25.908 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    2014
    FP1
    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]1 [/TD]
    [TD="class: country spa"]Fernando Alonso [/TD]
    [TD="class: car-num"]14 [/TD]
    [TD="class: team"]Ferrari [/TD]
    [TD]1:31.840 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    FP2
    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]1 [/TD]
    [TD="class: country gb"]Lewis Hamilton [/TD]
    [TD="class: car-num"]44 [/TD]
    [TD="class: team"]Mercedes [/TD]
    [TD]1:29.625 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    They were getting close to the Bahrain pole times in testing and were quicker than FP times for that race so I think they are still teabagging here.
     
    #396
  17. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    I imagine that the engines are turned right down at the moment for safety and reliability.
     
    #397
  18. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    indeed they can, I had a friend who used to import his race fuel from america because the octane % was slightly higher and still just within the rules.
     
    #398
  19. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Every team will want the highest possible energy content for the minimum weight, but why would teams then hamper themselves by running less than 100 kg? I can't see any team running less than the maximum amount of fuel possible, but some teams may be getting more out of that fuel than others, depending on their fuel suppliers.

    In companies like Shell, Total, Petronas etc, it's not the blending that's the tricky bit, given volumetric glassware I could probably prepare a passable 5 L sample, it's more calculating what fuel mixture is going to be the most effective, and be within the rules.
     
    #399
  20. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah Jenson said something about balance being a problem on his car, never heard him mention that before...
     
    #400

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