OT - RIP Bob Crow

Don't get me started on council houses ... Mrs DT is currently socially engineering people out of London due to policy.

I spit blood with her at times ... People on the property game given a small fortune just because of geography can now go and buy a mansion in other parts of the country because they were given a right to buy in the game of monopoly while pockets of the world and this evil country suffer.

Before or if i get a few remarks ... I sold and gave away my property money 9 years ago, sold my French house then as well and travelled. I made sure i didn't make profit of any sort and gave my sister everything from our parents estate ... why because I make my own way in life and that can't be at the expense of others. Good for this bloke to say remarks about Thatcher IMO ... she was a awful human being. Yes I have got a new house in France now because I wanted one ... out of this evil country and saved for one by making crap so people can't continue to sell crap to the very people who have no idea what life is even about ... Bob Crow's finished his today and stood up at least against the evil machine

 

You are right mate, the objective of social housing - who is it for, and what rights and obligations do tenants have over the properties, has got very confused. When I was at school about I'd guess about half of my classmates lived in council houses, no stigma from what I can remember. It seems then as now, even many of those in work could not afford decent quality in the private sector, either renting or buying.

The 'right to buy' stuff was pure ideology, part of this 'shareholding democracy' which Thatcher wanted to create. But I think that was always explicit, the agenda was transparent. And the idea of owning your own home (or owning a debt on the property more often) has become a sacrosanct aspiration (good old 70s Union word, 'our members' aspirations....') and seen as a way to fund retirement and later care home costs. Elsewhere in Europe renting is the norm, with very strong tenants rights. I'm all for high quality social housing, it should help to keep the private rental market relatively sane, if there is sufficient supply. I doubt they should be owned and managed by Councils though, if my experience of public sector management in this country is anything to go by.

 

Good skills 9's

 

Nice post.

RIP

 

My point was that council housing is also, IMO, part of the whole 'welfare' system and that why is one being used by someone on a large wage frowned upon, but using another mostly ignored of condoned. I'm not saying I'm correct in my views, but just giving my opinion.

 

Well put reply mate.

 

Just noticed !!!

Condolences to family and friends.

Shall refrain from adding any opinions of the chap himself, and what he stood for.

 

I cant think of anyone who has ever been ‘frowned upon’ for using the NHS or state school that’s all.

Top 1% of earners pay a third of income tax. (which anyone who only read’s the Guardian the Mirror or only get your news from the BBC wouldn’t know about) So if a wealthy person wants to use the NHS or a state school for their kids I’m not sure how you can argue they haven’t earned that right.
Someone who is already rich cant apply for a council house. But someone born poor, is granted a council house and then becomes rich should move on and give someone the chance to better themselves.

 

I agree totally that using the NHS by the rich isnt frowned upon.....but why not ??

Surely that person is, if they can afford private health care, taking up a hospital bed or a place on a waiting list for someone who might be poor and in desperate need.
Why is this ok, but living and paying rent for a council property when you can afford somewhere private, so wrong ??

(Genuine question as it just doesn't make sense to me)

 

Sorry Stainsey, I'm with Mr Damage on this one, there is a material difference between health and education, paid for out of general taxation (and Council Tax, which is about the same thing nowadays) and designed to be for everyone (whether or not they take up the opportunity) and social housing which is not open to all, but only those who meet needs based criteria. Bob Crow did not meet the criteria, but had such rights as a sitting tenant I presume, that he could not be kicked out. Otherwise if I wanted to move to central London but didn't fancy paying private sector rents I would put myself on a council housing list. But I can't because council housing isn't meant for me. Quite rightly.

For health and education 'afford' isn't part of the equation, for housing it is. The people who can 'afford' private health and education have already paid for public versions of the same through the taxes they pay (and paid on behalf of others too) - again, quite rightly, progressive taxation is a mark of civilization, but its a fine balancing act. If you then say 'you are too rich to use these public services' the response may well, justifiably, be - 'well I'll have my tax money back then, cheers'.

The reason richer people choose private education for their kids is quality, and private healthcare is convenience and a better 'hotel' experience - the clinical quality is similar (except for infection rates) as its the same doctors doing the work in both settings.

 

This! Fella was an arse. RIP

 

Whatever people thought of this man you have to give him credit for sticking to his guns and always fighting for what he believed was fair.

Sadly not many people in power nowadays like Bob. I was very interested in politics a few years back but they all try and stay to the center which does my head in. No party these days left or right make me feel like voting anymore.

RIP Bob.

 

I have never heard of him but RIP anyway, too young to die

 

This. It's been a bit of a running joke with disputes in recent years that I wait to see which side he's on and then instantly know I should be on the other. Whether I thought he was right or wrong though, at least he was prepared to stand up for things he felt were right rather than just falling in line. RIP

 

Hmmmmmm......Interesting reading, thanks for that. I will admit after reading this (and Petes) posts, i am begining to rethink my position on council housing.
I'll still admire Crow for what he did, but maybe he was wrong on this subject

 

Council houses used to be for working class people, you went on a list, waited then got it. Then in the late 70s it was decided that instead of first come first served, they should be given on priority of need. I'm sure they meant well, but it divided the working class into "deserving poor" (people who worked) and "undeserving poor" (catch all term for everyone else). Add to that the reduction in stock due to right-to-buy, and it's become an unpleasant battleground. As anyone who saw the Twitter reaction after "How to get a council house" on channel 4 will attest.

 

Good post mate!

 

Sorry, I decided to deleted my original post here as it was going off topic to the OP.

I did not agree with his views but still respect that he stood up for what he believed in.

RIP

 

This.

RIP.