Renault are apparently 'in the red zone' with regard to their future because of possible delays with the new 1.6 engines turbo engines.
It will be interesting to see what happens with Red Bull if Renault pull out. Presumably Red Bull will try for a Mercedes engine again, and failing that Ferrari. It's an awkward one for Mercedes and Ferrari though, will they want to give a quality engine to a team which will probably then beat them with it? No. But at the same time, surely it would be better to have their name alongside Red Bull winning the title, than for Red Bull to win it with the other. Hope that makes sense... I'd say the FIA would definitely rather lose Renault than Ferrari, but at the same time they'll be sure Ferrari won't quit the sport, and the new engines may attract the likes of VW to the sport. It'll be interesting to see what they do.
Sorry - don't mean to take this off-topic but (quick answer): are we expecting any news to come out of the TWG group meeting today or will we get their decisions after they've gone back to the FIA? - Sorry, Westy. Back to Renault... yeah they've already pinned their colours to the new engine regs while Ferrari have apparently pinned theirs to not the new engine regs. Lots of other decisions are bound up in all this, like the restriction on off-throttle blowery and next year's ban on EBDs in terms of the direction the sport goes in from here on in. Engine regulations have periodically restricted the power output for a long time but I feel this is more of a battle for the soul of the sport than we've seen before. Maybe AG's flippant comment about banning the internal combustion engine isn't so far-fetched.
Mercedes have been cutting ties with McLaren for the past 3-4 years now, they didn't like having their name branded all over the show with "spy-gate". Red Bull will most likely get the Mercedes engines when McLarens contact with them runs out.
Renault have always found it difficult to commit to F1. - And quite frankly, I've never understood why they were interested in the first place!
Renault have lost out big in engine regs since 2007. They were playing fair to the rules while others found loop holes. Since then Renault have gone from the strongest engine to the least... well other than cosworth
Could you imagine McLaren then trying to get a deal with Ferrari? Apparently both McLaren and Red Bull have sounded out VW, and McLaren have built their own engine in-house for the MP4-12C, so I think they're bracing themselves for Mercedes withdrawing their support. I'd like to see them build their own engines.
Aren't Mclaren pushing their sports cars recently? If so, presumably they've been building their own engines for a while now so they should be set up for the new regs quite well. Having said that, I don't think their cars have 1.6 engines do they!? As I remember it, when Mercedes announced that they had taken over Brawn and would be stop supplying engines to McLaren in 5 years, McLaren welcomed the announcement and stated that they would make their own.
Haha, yes quite! However, Mclaren are a considerably different kettle of fish when compared to Arrows.
McLaren were planning to use their own engines when Mercedes stop supplying. However, this was before the silly idea of four pot engines which are of no interest to either McLaren or Ferrari - or most of the fan base for that matter. The odd thing about the so-called 'Mercedes' engine is that it would be more accurately be called 'McLaren' in any case, since it was designed by McLaren and is still built at Ilmore in England! Meanwhile VW - who were the instigators of the change to little vibrators (in line fours have inherent secondary vibration, unlike a straight six or V6) - have had a change of heart and as far as I am aware have now lost interest in becoming involved in F1. (Thankfully). With a bit of luck, they'll all have a sensible re-think and stick with bigger engines.
Ilmor stopped making the Mercedes units a few years back. Its now Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines Ltd. made in England and stutgart Germany. I believe Ilmor tried to become the low cost engine provider but was beaten by cosworth
With the FIA giving F1 stakeholders until 30 June to make the case for not implementing the new engine regulations in 2013, Martin Whitmarsh has suggested turbocharged V6s as a compromise for those who are worried about losing the sound of the cars. I think there's a lot more to both sides of the argument than the noise the cars make.
I have missed this chat about the power plant (for 2013?). Apologise for joining in late. I had imagined it was over bar the shouting. Is it really ongoing? I was convinced that Mercedes didn't want to continue with McL, and that they McL were designing their own solution?
I don't think it's anywhere near resolved. There doesn't seem to be a lot of noise from the 'no' camp considering the deadline for objections is twelve days away but then we've seen the teams force the FIA into extending their deadlines before. Everything is flexible.
Surprisingly sensible from Whitmarsh. I don't know why they didn't do this in the first place, dropping it to V6's seemed like a natural progression and an obvious thing to do. Hopefully this will go through, V6's are more environmentally friendly, whilst still being relevant to Ferrari's road cars and allowing Renault to try and shake off the power deficit they've been frozen with.
Yes, I agree AG. I've been arguing for a 6 right from the moment the plan for a 4 was announced, and at last the right noises are being heard. It is more than a little ironic that VW have historically produced perhaps the best V6 road car engine ever built. (Nissan have produced the best straight 6, as seen in the Skyline; the same engine as used in their Le Mans car, circa 1989).
That's the point I'm struggling to understand. Why such a step change in the regulations rather than a gradual progression to wherever the FIA thinks F1 needs to be? Is it simply a bargaining point, knowing the teams won't accept a single jump to four cylinders, set out to get them to move in that direction? Or are they hurrying because they already feel F1 is trailing behind? The teams argue that implementing the new regulations will be too expensive, but will it be more expensive to implement V6s now and then four cylinders in five years' time? When the new regulations were announced I thought there was no real will behind turning them into reality and that they existed only as a negotiating point in the Concorde Agreement discussions against the teams' demand for greater revenue but with Ecclestone stepping up the fight against the new engines I can't see that being the case, unless it's a very, very cunning plan by him and Todt to have him as the defender of the teams' interests, in return for which he'll want them to agree to the status quo regarding revenue. There are all sorts of interconnected wranglings going on here - Sky TV, the Concorde Agreement, the engine regulations, the ban on EBDs, Renault's position, PURE technology... ultimately none of it might be real except how the spoils are divided. Incidentally, what's the proposed configuration for four cylinders? Is it open to interpretation by the engine manufacturers? EDIT: F1Times has tweeted that Ecclestone is considering legal action against the FIA to block the new regulations. I don't know if this is a rehash of a story that circulated last week, which reported that Ecclestone had pointed out that, under the current Concorde Agreement, the WMSC cannot take this decision and that it has to be examined by the TWG and voted on by the F1 Commission, or if it's new information. The FIA said that, because the Concorde Agreement runs out in 2012 and these regulations are for 2013, they are not subject to the conditions set out in the agreement. In any case, the threat of legal action may just be a manoeuvre intended to extend the 30 June deadline.
