World Leaders will not be duped twice !! However, economic sanctions will hurt both Europe and Russia, and neither is in a position where they can tolerate much more pain.
Nikita Khrushchev (a Ukranian btw) then secretary general of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union decided in mid 1950's to transfer Crimea from what was then the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic to the Ukranian Soviet Socialist Republic. Nepotism, self interest, corruption, an idiot or just plain drunk... who knows? Big mistake.
Just watching the BBC news, trying to work out exactly how many talking heads, including Huw Edwards who literally just reads the news, they actually have in Ukraine. With all their technical people included perhaps they have invasion plans of their own. This overkill really winds me up, particularly when natural disasters are concerned - sending dozens of people into disaster zones where resources are in critically short supply to get into people's faces and repeat themselves endlessly. I threw a radio across the room when hearing James "Useless" Naughtie presenting the `today programme from the heart of the devastation of the Japanese tsunami. Jeremy Bowen, that Irish woman and sometimes John Simpson are honourable exceptions, actually reporting from places where there is clear danger. Presumably it helps knowing they won't bump into Fiona Bruce or John "Bastard" Humphreys round the next corner and have to make small talk with them. I feel better now.
Well said. Bowen is probably the bbc reporter who shows impartiality in the Middle East, he took a bullet for his troubles in Cairo. The Irish lady is the sister Veronica Guerin (afaik) shot by the Irish 'Mafia' at a traffic light which probably explains her serious commitment against bullshit. John Simpson is entertaining at least. Don't start me of Huw Edwards, should never have been let out of Wales let alone near a television studio.
I know what you mean Col, but tragically they are still streets ahead of Sky in quality and impartiality (no I'm not saying the BBC is impartial, but it is way less corporately biased than Sky, and its pretty easy to filter out the bias of individual reporters), and ITV is just not fit to broadcast news, muppets. But why the f**k is the BBC broadcasting live, now, from the courtroom where Oscar Pistorious being tried? Something that there is only interest in because he has no legs? How many other murders get no coverage at all? A five second update at most, celebrity culture taking over yet again ("culture" obviously not the right word here....) Orla Guerin, thats it. Bowen is something of a minor hero of mine, he was so uncomfortable presenting from a sofa for a bit, and is obviously so much happier with bullets being fired at him, and has invested years in trying to understand and be as objective as possible about the Middle East. With Simpson I always think 'what's that old man wearing a formal shirt under his flak jacket in the desert for? Surely he has some gardening to do?" He's a decent journo, but the reliance on these old men (not being ageist, I'm nearly there myself) by the BBC is embarrassing - him (70), Humphreys (70), Paxman (64, a child), Naughtie (63, a baby) - white, middle class, university educated men just like me, I suppose I should be in tune with them, but they just represent an ossified media establishment.
Examine what is offered for brain food here IMO ... Like most blemishes that turn into boils we all had the option to do something at the time ... We didn't and we don't Anyone seriously on here thinks this is about one mans quest for land? The powers have been fully aware of this and any conflict long before it becomes an opinion we all chew over with our cornflakes Most of us will go about our business today and micro manage our own dramas ... Why? Because we are conditioned that way I can only offer have the west got a decent clean record in similar matters? The Zeitgeist in all us?
I have been off the message board for a few days and am very pleased that that there are posts about the Ukraine. This current situation should not be a surprise as it is very typical of the Russian mentality going back for a very long time of "We need to intervene to protect our people" (or even you form yourselves!). This is a replay of Georgia in 2006 where in reality they annexed a couple of large chunks of land. The Russians even came to save Poland from the Nazi's on 17th September 1939 and forgot to leave until exactly 54 years to day. I attach an interesting link for those interested: http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-19/news/mn-36939_1_red-army However, I am very disappointed that "the West", and especially the EU, as this is on the EU's doorstep (not to mention that there is an unsigned EU Association Agreement), did not anticipate this and have a contingency plan. Where are all these experts and what have all the experts being doing? The response from the West must be very strong as Putin is claerly testing the water. If there is a small reaction he will go further. For Putin it is close to incomprehensible to consider losing control of the Ukraine to the West. I believe he feels he must stop and discredit is Majdan movement before it is legalised and matures. He certainly wants to retake the "Russian gift" to the Ukraine of Crimea, and worst case would like to split the Ukraine into two parts (the very industrial and pro-Russian East, and the more agricultural and pro-EU West). Certainly he wants to destabilise the cuurent movement, create fear and to cause economic difficult. Gas prices will rise (double), gas supplies will be intermediate. To neutralise this, very large financial support will need to be pumped in from the West. Also, there is a time line as new elections need and must be held as in any normal democracy. Current they are planned for May, but Putin already is suggesting that he wants to return to the agreement signed several weeks ago (ie. Janukowycz to be reinstated as President and election only in December). Jankowyczâs loss of power is a massive blow to Putin and he cannot have model which may be rolled out in other areas. In short, I do not understand why people are surprised. The people in Majdan square certainly are not as they are not departing until free election are held. The West must be strong and unified in its voice. This is now not an internal Ukrainian issue, but under Putin this is the reactivation of the cold war philosophy. The only thing that he will listen to is a serious hard line. But USA and EU must be very strong and determined. This issue will not go away by itself. This is going to be a long politiical game of chess, and we are currently only in the openng moves.
If things get any worse then sorry no option but to send in Conrad Pugsley ... The Wizard of Sutton please log in to view this image
Best stay well out of it. Thanks to Gazprom my home is warm and we have the Champions League on TV and Ukraine and Russia are not on Britain's 'yet to invade list'. Liechtenstein might be doable however. It's still on the list of 22 countries Britain has never invaded. 90% isn't bad going though is it? Full list here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/...-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html
We have also stayed well away from Bolivia ... the source of the Vampire virus Agree 100% and am strangely attracted to half naked man on a horse although I would have to keep those thoughts to myself Love to re interview the US generation that used to hate "those commie bastards" but have since lost their homes in the greatest set of lies ever told. As for the Champions League at Half time ... get out you smart phones and tablets ... It's in play time
Well said (naked men on horses aside!). Obama: "Putin will find himself on the wrong side of history..." The USA lacks self awareness at the best of times but that takes the biscuit: http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
Taking off my my irreverent head for one moment ... a dynamic that I don't think has been mentioned is the plight of the Tartars in the Crimea ... they have sided with the Ukranians against the Russians ...
Very interesting thread. I totally missed this one and thought about starting a new thread about this situation myself yesterday but must admit I bottled it! This situation does indeed suck, looking back historically this does have some striking similarity's to the outbreak of world war two but in my humble opinion I can't see this leading to the third installment of a world war. Putin is a very clever man and has made the USA look very weak in global politics recently. Is he any worse than the last president of the USA George Bush? This is a very complicated situation and I agree America and Europe don't have the stomach for another war of sorts. We are still all feeling the affects of a global downturn and America cant afford another confrontation. Russia has us all slightly by the short and curly's so to speak. The way I see it Russia are more worried about there base for the Black Sea Fleet, it's to them what the Rock Of Gibraltar is to the UK. If you have time then have a read about it in this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet I'm as gutted as anyone about the brave protesters who sadly lost there life's sticking up for what they believe in, it sucks big time. Not so sure about WW3 but very concerned about more loss of life and this tipping the global economy's back into a depression. When this happens we will have the ingredients for a big war of some sorts.
