Funny how we're not so brave about invading and forcing 'regime change' when we'd be facing Russia and not Saddam, isn't it? Watch the tottering world economy fall over a precipice when the Russians turn off their gas and oil in response to our farcical 'threats' to 'do something' to them through trade embargos. What a ****ing mess. Ulster on the Black Sea.
I dont think sending in your army to secure your ports and interests in an autonomous peninsular in a country where there has just been a violent revolution is anywhere near as bad as what we did in Iraq/Afghanistan. Most Crimeans beleive themselves to be Russian, no shots have been fired. We should stay the **** out of it, we have no right to be telling Russia what they can and cant do. If the Russians start shooting civilians, thats a different matter.
Crimea probably should be in Russia not Ukraine; this wasn't the way to go about it though. We are obligated by treaty to protect Ukraine's borders... doubt we will. Doubt we will go to war... but it is eerie how much all this parallels pre WWII (and I pointed this out months ago before Ukraine incident) Two dictators who took over fledgling democracies. Hitler, Putin. Both had been in power institutions during a national embarrassment. Hitler: army WWI. Putin: KGB fall of soviet union. Both held ego Olympics to show world they are modern strong powers. Both took over press to post internal propoganda. Both chose minority group to attack to try and gain widespread internal support. Jews, Gays. Both attacked smaller neighbouring countries claiming ethnic ties. Germany in Czechoslovakia. Russia in Georgia. Now: both marched into smaller neighbour unopposed. Austria, Crimea. The biggest difference is Russia is in no position for war against the world. Scary though. Who might be Poland this time if it came to that.
Just had an amusing thought... if this continues to follow WWII parallel that means: Once the war is over. The West will feel guilt for what happened to the gays in Russia. So... they will take territory from Uganda and create a new country Gaylandia. Millions of gays from all round the world would stream there and push out the current population. I'm not sure how the economy would work though. A nation where all the men are hairdressers might not function well.
Russia being an evil dick again. Invading an independent European nation? Imagine if all countries with minorities in other nations decided to invade the latter to 'protect' their brethren. f**king chaos, war and disaster unseen not even in the middle ages. Were the Russians of Crimea being physically harassed, their rights and liberties stripped? No. A treasonous government was overthrown in order to be replaced by a better one - a Cause the West should encourage and ally with, not betray.
Whereas I think Russia should have opened peaceful discussions about the hand over of Crimea. And Crimea would be in full right to peaceful protest. What has happened is Russia has invade a neighbour militarily to annex territory. The west probably had little right to invade Iraq/Afghanistan however we did not do it to annex territory... besides bit of a straw man. The legitimacy (or lack thereof) in those wars had nothing to do with Ukraine.
Dont get me wrong, I dont agree with what Russia has done - I just think its a bit rich that they are being hounded by us and the USA when we have done a lot worse recently. If there was an uprising and political uncertainty in a region where the US had leases a naval base, I'm pretty sure they wouldsend in troops first and negotiate later.
If the US/UK don't hound them- who will? No country has a spotless record. That doesn't mean since we're all tainted we should sit quietly whilst Russia carves out a new empire.
sorry but should be the un problem, we are not being attacked, more of this ****e happening and both our countries will be even more prone to terrorist attacks than we are already. sorry but unless they start attacking us, stay the **** out of it, we both have enough problems sorting out the state of our countries, and why should the taxpayers of both countries pay for another war we don't want? if its such an issue should be an international one, not just the US and GB problem like it normally is.
Protecting the perimeter of a legit leased naval base would be very different from annexing a civilian region. Also, equating Russia to the US is more than a bit rich. Yes, the US has acted rashly without UN approval often, but frankly anyone but a flower child knows that the UN paralyses itself into a perverse and ******ed theatre when it comes to managing hard decisions. Also, the US tends to intervene militarily into rogue third-world nations where democratic and human right principles are pisspoor to begin with. Russia, like an envious trolling evil brother adopts a similar approach but in the opposite direction - upsetting democratic & human rights further.
Perhaps... but have you heard the UN say anything yet? Russia has veto power. UN can't even pass a resolution to criticise Russia... Russia would veto it.
of course not, they hide behind the hope that the us and gb interfere first. how is that 2nd part legally and ethically possible?
The UN is for all purposes kaput in this situation. It doesn't do much when a friend of a friend of a security council nation does smth horrible, nevermind when a SC nation itself does it.
Revolution? This is Tymoshenko's 2nd revolution, one back in 2004 put her and her criminal cronies in power, the orange revolution. She and the President at that time proceeded to fleece the country of over 100bn, the latter is now rotting in a US jail for embezzlement and fraud. Her hubby is hiding out in the Czech republic because he's also wanted on charges of fraud and other charges. There are armed militia gangs roaming the country, taking places when ordered, someone who has just elected himself president, their parliament has been gutted, anyone who supported the ruling party that just got ousted are in hiding. Make no mistake, the "opposition" needed people to die in this conflict. A few police were killed too though it is easy to forget they are people as well. As for Russian involvement, the US are already involved and have been reported to have personnel in the country since the protests were going on. The whole thing turning violent suited only one side, not the government definitely the opposition and it's EU\US backers. The nationalists talk of chasing the jews and n****rs out of the country, these guys are armed to the teeth and currently rule like *****l Khans in their area. Their ranks include some seriously nazi skinhead f**kers, the sort you dont want roaming the place in militias after what was essentially was a coup on an elected government. Just a coincidence it all kicked off after the failed EU deal. This is the 2nd time this lot will have gotten into power by means such as this in 10 years. As for the Russians shooting civilians comment. What did anyone do when British and US troops shot unarmed civilians in Iraq? It is OK for Palestinians to be shot out of hand. But the mere idea of those pesky Russians shooting civilians gets the blood boiling. Meanwhile the West support the Saudis who pretty much run world terrorism, support Al Qaeda in Syria and in Libya before it.
I never thought I would ever say this, but I agree with Sisu. There are never good guys and bad guys in this scenarios just a mix of people out for their own ends with the innocent ones usually suffering. The Ukrainians have just swapped one set of gangsters for another set of gangsters. The west won't take on Russia as they are to stretched in the middle east and would not want to start ww3
The main thing here is; 1. Will we see a Poland style carve up between Germany and Russia 2. Is Putin believing his own hype? How far will he push. Nobody fn cares about Ukraine par se must admit it guys you don't really. It's how far we go to the precipice on this and the next power trip. Sad dam was fine until he went just too far Mugabe too. For the ordinary man they are all filth but to the powerful they either can be worked with or can't be. Can Putin stop himself?
Russia is the bad guy, period. Before the current conflict as well, and importantly so. Russia was straining to have Yanukovich, a Russian speaker speaking to Russian interests, remain in power of a western-looking Ukraine. No wonder honest Ukrainians wanted him out. He could have dissolved parliament, before he decided to kill demonstrators, and carry out internationally-monitored free elections. Also, regardless of how things got mangled up in Ukraine and whose fault it was, who in hell gives Russia the right to invade 10,000 sq miles of Ukrainian land? whilst threatening to invade further?
