OT: Frank and Dave's Philosophical Kebab Emporium

They are fantastic sales people

I often doubt people like this are religious AT ALL.

Which has just reminded me, I had a friend of a friend who was a priest and didn't believe a word of it but the benefits of the job were fantastic!

 

Just curious as aman of faith can you see through that whole facad! I agree with you, think it is so ott and dramatic. Message is right but like you say, don't buy the big hair, the sparkly teeth, the give us offerings type of thing. Very very very Southern Baptist all of that. There is a channel here ( can't remember the name) that does the same thing. Big hair, way ott, but always asking for money.... ALWAYS. makes me uneasy that type of stuff.

EDIT: Not knocking the faith at all btw, but these certain types of money makers if you will. Feels like a snake in the grass more than a help.

 

Yeh but some of the scientific personalities are also snake oil salesmen in disguise - especially when it comes to the social sciences!

 

There's people like Frank who very honestly reserve some (possibility of) faith for personal WANT/NEED/LIKE reasons only. It fulfills them spiritually to know that there's more out there than little cold microscopic pellets bumping into each-other. These people are patient with science and don't question its power and reach. And I have a lot of patience for these romantics in turn.

Then there's people like a few here who have faith for additional impersonal reasons - they use God as the final shape-shifting puzzle piece. These people believe that science will never find all the answers to the questions of the physical realm.

I would like these people to think: How much will science have advanced say in year 12,014 AD, ten millenia from now?

Keep in mind that today's scientists are already flirting with concepts such as negative energy, nonconservation of energy in general relativity, that leviathan of string theory etc etc.

Won't we all be seen as superstitious barbarians in the eyes on the much more scientifically-advanced man of 12,014 AD? Sure, we will.

 

If the human race is still in existence.

 

No doubt, just have to look back at examples like when we thought the Earth was flat, the sun went into the sea at night and 'witches' were burnt or drown etc etc.

We will keep looking to discover and we will all look 'silly' in a few hundred years of course - but tools etc advance too which we do not have at our disposal now.

 

How childish! You know even less about faith than you do the history of science. Just think for a moment of all of the scientific 'junk' that has been created since the beginning of time and has only very slowly been junked as absolutely useless or wrong! So just how much of todays 'cutting-edge' science will be junked just like its predecessors?

If you really knew anything about faith then you would at least know that faith is ALWAYS personal.

 

Angry still Dave? You may not have warts, but smth's must be really itchy with you. I'll stoop to your level and answer you, albeit not with insults.

This junk you mention has always been a byproduct of the scientific process, hardly something that should disrupt your belief in science.

However, inevitably science clears out its own junk as it progresses. Guess which system doesn't clear its own junk? Faith doesn't. A pity there. Actually worse: pathetically, Faith waits for science to show up and wipe its junk.

 

I've already told you that you do have a problem with Transference. This is no trace of anger in my response to you just an accurate response to your 'loaded' post. It was childish and it was not exact. As more posters than me have already pointed out to you.

 

No need for Apologies, to be frank. . I see your example as completely a different kettle of fish. You would find it hard to classify your religion due to your admitted doctrinal issues. My sister and her partner were uncertain about the abundant differences between the two parts of the largest schism in Islam. They pay mouth service to 'their' religion, but are largely ignorant of it. They've been a bit better recently, but they are flag wavers rather than mindful muslims.

 

Did you understand my reply to you at least? The one about faith's junk.

 

I can't speak for all faith's. I can talk about my faith and I don't find any junk there - or at least any that needs science to cleanse

 

You're lucky. It must be a very personal one. Very few faiths out there don't put their noses into the physical realm, the domain of science. They usually like to dominate all realms.

 

You may not believe me but I already told you that all faith is personal of necesity. You are, I believe, confusing faith with religion.

 

Livtor - All faith is personal. What are you trying to achieve with your ill informed comments?

 

My posts are clear. You can remove the word 'personal' and read them just as clearly.


I'll patiently elucidate further however:


1) faith arising purely from personal needs/wants/fears/likes. such faith is in total peace with science and leaves the physical domain all to science. (Frank)

2) faith arising from the above AND a need to include God in the workings of the physical realm. such people do not believe the workings of the physical world can be explained from a purely scientific point of view.

The latter type of faith must be yours, dave's, saint's - as I see you guys downplaying the power of science in explaining physical phenomena.

 

Sorry but 2) doesn't make any sense.

 

Livtor why does it have to be a number or bracket that everyone is categorized in? Too many religions have different branches that each takes that religion and makes it their own. Science is the same way with a lot of this. Then if you want you can add ghost phenomenon into it or hell even Aliens ( some sceptical, some fully believe in it, some aren't fussed either way and more).

Not sure why you are trying to impose your ideas ( not even sure what you believe as you seem to pick at everyone else) on others and call theirs junk but your is the right? Too vague, too many grey areas for all of that.

 

Do you believe that the workings of the physical world can be explained from a purely scientific point of view, JB?

 

Do you?