Off Topic Dark Matter and other Astronomy information.

mercury

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Aboriginal drawings on Mars That's at least as accurate as what NASA and text books tell us today about comets the sun the universe ect tbh

 

I'm going to keep this very very simple because there is no way opponents in this argument can ever 'win'. However, Occams Razer has no place in this debate as neither side has a limitation on the number of assumptions that are associated with their arguments (as can be seen by the above enjoyable discourse).

So, why should God be 'chopped-out'? You may not like the idea of God but that is no reason to deny that he just may exist until your scientific approach can positively prove that he does not. Similarly I have no right to condemn any scientific research to gain that evidence.

 

Saturn’s moon Enceladus and a shot of plasma discharge in a lab test. Very similar, link that to comet Holmes lighting up and expanding to be bigger than the Sun as it passed Saturn moving AWAY from the sun, a pattern emerges. Geologists have been scratching their bollocks for a long time trying to explain those features.

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It's a common enough argument, Dave. Occam's razor cuts out unnecessary steps of complication from an argument. If there's no creator for god, then why for everything else? If God is eternal, why can't the universe/mulitverse? That would be the most parsimonious argument from a logical standpoint. The point's not that I don't like the god idea (I don't on many levels!), but that I find the idea pointless. For me the god hypothesis, to paraphrase Laplace, is not needed.

Of course, we'll never prove / disprove God(s) and I agree there will be no winner to any such debate, and so I agree not to start one.

I'm not even going to start on Sisu's posts. Please enrol on an astronomy and astrophysics course, Sisu, they'd answer pretty much all your questions in a flash. Actually, don't bother. You'd only end up miserable as there'd be no NASA conspiracies!

 

Listen mate, who's talking about a conspiracy? Like Wtf

This is a different idea about the universe and how it works not some claim that NASA is lying and lets be honest, you can't challenge my posts because I am just posting findings, researching and you aren't. One's that are obvious to the layman. I am no physicist but then again logic doesn't require you to be, when a comet flares up in a deep freeze heading away from the sun that is enough proof that the current theory on comets is bull****.

And when 94% of the universe is contrived by maths, yet the supposed tangible is invisible totally Dark Matter and Dark Energy then it has to be questioned, you ridiculing the questioning is a bt lame, I am trying to prove nothing, just pointing out the obvious flaws in current understanding and if you don't have the will to look into it so you can challenge it fine but don't be mocking me at the same time

 

Mathematicians do the maths, it doesn't work so they factor in something else and something else until it works. Leaving out the electrical nature of the universe makes any theory which includes gravitational theory fundamentally flawed

Gravitational theory failed so Black Holes made up the difference, but black holes couldn't explain why suns hadn't shot off into the far reaches of the universe in the time they existed. Again gravitational theory failed so dark matter and dark energy were born, all three were contrived solely by maths to prop up gravitational theory. It is not a conspiracy, it is plain folly vanity and ego.

Even string theory, it failed, add more dimensions, it still failed, the maths failed until it got to 10 dimensions and then eureka! They just kept recalculating with more and more dimensions until the maths worked, how the f**k is that valid theory

 

Anyway I thought this was an interesting subject. I can see from some general replies here that those who work in those fields must face some fierce obstinacy when presenting their new ideas, I am just airing some of those new ideas and the nonsense I get back at something I just wanted to open to discussion is silly really. Anti discovery anti intellectual and just plain stupid, and all from those who offered nothing to counter any of the findings I posted.

I'll leave it at that

 

If God created time, he is therefore outside of time and since he has no beginning in time, he has always existed.

Occam's Razor shouldn't be wielded blindly, as Einstein said "even scholars of audacious spirit and fine instinct can be obstructed in the interpretation of facts by philosophical prejudices."

 

Is the moon really made of cheese?

 

Add a poll about God to this... I'm curious to know where the posters stand.

1. He watches you, knows you, foresees you, makes you & your future. You are basically a widget encoded in his almost infinite App.

2. As above, but with heavenly compassion, love, and a special place in him for Earth and Man, this blessed little world, where he often sends down his prophets to show us the good way.

3. He was, created and unleashed the physical world, but stays out of its natural operations.

4. He never was. All there ever was was energy, physics, chance, mutation, permutation, selection, survival, will.

5. As above, but free will amongst intelligent beings does not really exist either. Constitution and the calculus of reward-punishment decide responses.

 

It is an interesting subject, and it's drawn some interesting discussion, so thanks for opening it up.
However, these are your opening lines:

As an opening, this doesn't come across as a desire to discuss, it just seems confrontational and aggressive. Similarly, some of the absolutist assertions that something is "nonsense" or cannot possibly be what we're told it is, are not conducive to reasoned debate. This isn't discussing a subject, it's simply taking an opposite, intransigent viewpoint.
An argument is won by strength of its case, not by the vehemence of its presentation. Open hostility towards any disagreement only makes others dig their heels in too.

The scientific community doesn't claim its theories are fact, merely that they are the best fit of the facts as we currently view them. If an alternative theory makes a better fit, then it will eventually break down resistance and become the prevalent one.

Personally, I share your view that mathematical calculations that cannot be proven empirically are dangerous, in that you can go wildly off the mark trying to make them fit, but I'm simply not qualified to construct an argument to back up my gut belief. And, as I said earlier, I do believe that theoretical scientists are trying their best to discover the truth. Why wouldn't they? Anyone that remains wedded to an outmoded or clearly false idea will only appear foolish.

Anyway, a good thread, imo. It's interesting that it's drawn discussion not only on maths and cosmology but philosophy and theology too.

Just needed a bit more footie.

 

I only have this to add:-

[video=youtube;JWVshkVF0SY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY[/video]

 

A worthy addition

 

The obvious counter has to be why is there a need for a creator of God? But we end up running round in circles confusing each other when we are all confused enough .

What does make me happy in this thread is that posters have been able to state their own positions and had those positions respected by other posters who hold contrary views. To me that has made a welcome change from the general knockabout disrespect with which we normally treat each other on these pages.

 

Gotta admit I do not believe in god, or a soul, definitely not a soul. You get one shot at this, a unique existence and that's it. Once you die and the energy dissapates from your brain, that's it, **** gone. Recycled.

Consciousness is not a single entity. It is a combination of different parts of the brain working together that appears to be a singular consciousness all combined by a singular electrical system.

The brain is about 100 billion neurons. You can train it to do literally anything with the right training methods including physical reconfiguration of the brain it's self. New experiences make new neural connections. I don't see how "god" has a part in all of this.

Even simple things like when faced with different opinion to yours, your brain releases the chemicals released are the same ones that are released to ensure survival in threatening circumstances. This affects the brain's operation and causes narrow mindedness and you lose processing ability and can become irrational, I am sure people have experienced this on here arguing with other posters


I suggest a watch of "Athena God is in the neurons". It's interesting stuff.
[video=youtube;oPEdDcs_8ZQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPEdDcs_8ZQ&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

Hope you include yourself in the Dave

I've seen you say someones opinion is ****!

But thats football, we all have the common interest of following our team but this thread as veered off towards personal individual beliefs which is why its stayed like that I reckon

And goes without saying everyone should respect that

 

Good vid Sisu

 

From the video

This would point to no soul and no single consciousness which for me throws the whole god thing up in the air.

By the way, I have definitely used the information in that video to improve certain things I do. I believe it is a brilliant piece of work.

 

Dont understand what you mean there mate

For me, personally I dont want to think of why im thinking stuff all the time(unless I suddenly decide I want to kill or something) I just have to get on with it

At points in my life where I analyse everything (and I do alot and have to stop myself) they have been very unhappy points in my life for me personally. Not to say I dont deal with facts, its just with over analysing stuff bothers you that just doesnt matter! And while this is happening you are missing out on things you should be reveling in. But you cant, because you're miserable for over analysing something that shouldn't matter. Thats my experience anyway

The video you posted though is interesting, the brain is very complicated and different in everyone which is what makes us all so unique!